"Permanent" DST

Wed Mar 16 16:38:14 UTC 2022

> On Mar 15, 2022, at 22:16 , Doug Barton <dougb at dougbarton.us> wrote:
> 
> All of this. The reason that the proposal is always worded "Permanent Daylight Savings Time" is that there are a non-trivial number of people who genuinely believe that with DST we get more sunlight. Not more sunlight during the hours when most people are awake, literally more sunlight.
> 
> In a world where institutional hours don't change, (schools, workplaces, etc.) DST actually makes sense because it more closely aligns the ideas of "morning" and "evening" with most people's schedules. For the most part people complaining about the change are actually reacting to the lengthening and/or shortening daylight hours. The fixed point to change the clocks just gives them something to focus on.

No… I am not complaining about the shortening or lengthening of the days. I well understand how the relationship between the ecliptic plane and the axis of earth’s rotation interact over the course of a year to cause this phenomenon and why it is exaggerated the further you get towards the poles.

I am perfectly fine adapting to this phenomenon without screwing with the clock and having 10,000 different rules for when it happens around the world.

I favor sticking with one timezone because I see no benefit to screwing with the clock and I’d rather just leave it alone. I really don’t care whether California is in PST, MST, PDT, UTC, or any other timezone, so long as we simply pick one and stay there year round.

> Keeping everything on standard time and adjusting schedules makes the most sense for letting kids travel too and from with the most daylight possible; but taking just the example of working parents, they would need all of their kids' schools to agree to the same change, as well as their workplace.

Actually, if you kept everything on standard time and didn’t adjust schedules, you’d be faced with up to an extra hour of daylight before school beyond what you get now, but otherwise, there would be no additional consequence, so IMHO, that makes the most sense. Maximizes the daylight for kids traveling and doesn’t require schedule adjustment.

> Alas, the true solution is education.

It is difficult to educate those who remain willfully ignorant. This phenomenon is the basis for modern American politics.

Owen

> 
> 
> On 3/15/22 3:09 PM, Matthew Huff wrote:
>> They don't want their names on it when what happened in the 70s happens again. The effect of setting everything to DST and staying there is that in the winter, especially in the norther latitude it will be pitch dark during most of the morning when children get picked up at school bus stops. When the tragedy happens again, and it will, they will end up undoing this again...
>> History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, then as a farce...
>> Matthew Huff | Director of Technical Operations | OTA Management LLC
>> Office: 914-460-4039
>> mhuff at ox.com | www.ox.com
>> ...........................................................................................................................................
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+mhuff=ox.com at nanog.org> On Behalf Of Jay R. Ashworth
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 5:30 PM
>> To: Tom Beecher <beecher at beecher.cc>
>> Cc: nanog at nanog.org list <nanog at nanog.org>
>> Subject: Re: "Permanent" DST
>> Oh.  This was "Unanimous Consent"?  AKA "I want to vote for this, but *I do not want to be held responsible for having voted for it when it blows up*?"
>> I'd missed that; thanks.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tom Beecher" <beecher at beecher.cc>
>>> To: "Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuhnke at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "nanog at nanog.org list" <nanog at nanog.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 5:04:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: "Permanent" DST
>>> I would say if something passes the United States Senate in our
>>> current political environment by unanimous consent (which this did) ,
>>> I kinda feel like there won't be a ton of issues with everybody
>>> figuring out how to line themselves up appropriately.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 5:01 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> That is true but at present everything business related in BC has a
>>>> clear expectation of being in the same time zone as WA/OR/CA, and AB
>>>> matches US Mountain time.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 at 13:35, Paul Ebersman <list-nanog2 at dragon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> eric> If Canada doesn't do the same thing at the same time, it'll be
>>>>> eric> a real hassle, dealing with a change from -8 to -7 crossing
>>>>> eric> the border between BC and WA, for instance. It has to be done
>>>>> eric> consistently throughout North America.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You must not have ever dealt with Indiana, where it was DST or not
>>>>> by choice per county. It wasn't quite the cluster***k you'd think.
>>>>> 