What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

nanog08 at mulligan.org nanog08 at mulligan.org
Wed Jan 19 22:20:10 UTC 2022

Yeah - I'm sure they do and that is my point.  The heads of Verizon and 
ATT are not flying commercial. Their planes are not commercial airlines 
with hundreds of passengers == so they can much more easily just divert...


On 1/19/22 15:12, sronan at ronan-online.com wrote:
> Considering Verizon has a very sizable fleet of private aircraft, I am 
> fairly certain this will happen often.
> Shane
>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 4:59 PM, nanog08 at mulligan.org wrote:
>>  Scott - a side note to clarify things...
>> The 737 Max8 problem was NOT due to lack of testing or 
>> non-incremental changes.  The system was well tested and put through 
>> it's paces.  It was a lack of proper pilot training in the aircraft 
>> and its systems and some carriers choosing to NOT purchase specific 
>> flight control options.
>> Full disclosure - my classmate was the Chief Test Pilot for the MAX8 
>> and another classmate is the current FAA Administrator.
>> But I digress - sorry...
>> If you look at 5G deployments around Japan and Europe, generally they 
>> are NOT right up next to major airports.
>> I would like to ask ATT and Verizon senior leadership to put their 
>> loved ones onto a commercial aircraft that is flying into ORD during 
>> a blizzard on a Zero-Zero landing (the pilots relying on radio 
>> altimeters) and the 5G network up and running and then ask how 
>> confident they are that NOTHING will interfere and 5G is perfectly safe.
>> Geoff
>> On 1/19/22 14:37, Scott McGrath wrote:
>>> I’m guessing you are not a pilot,  one reason aviation is resistant 
>>> to change is its history is written in blood,    Unlike tech 
>>> aviation is incremental change and painstaking testing and 
>>> documentation of that testing.
>>> When that does not happen we get stuff like the 737 Max debacle
>>> Aviation is the antithesis of ‘Move fast and break things mentality’ 
>>> for a very good reason safety.
>>> On my flying club’s plane every replacement part comes with a 
>>> pedigree which is added to the plane’s maintenance log upon 
>>> installation and the reason for removing the old one recorded
>>> Imagine how much easier our networks would be to maintain if we had 
>>> records down to the last cable tie in the data center.   If there 
>>> was a bug in a SFP+ for instance all of them, when they were 
>>> installed and by who and what supplier they came from was readily 
>>> available sure would make my life easier.
>>> The reasoning behind that massive pile of documents (pilot joke ‘a 
>>> plane is not ready to fly until the weight of the paperwork equals 
>>> the weight of the airplane’) is that if a failure is traced to a 
>>> component all of them can be traced and removed from service.
>>> On a Airbus for instance all the takeoff and landing safety systems 
>>> are tied to the RadAlt.  The EU has strict rules about where the 
>>> c-band can be used as does Japan both use the 120 second rule c-band 
>>> devices not allowed in areas where the the aircraft is in its 
>>> beginning/ending 2 minutes of flight.
>>> So the REST of the world got c-band right the US not so much
>>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:59 AM Dennis Glatting <dg at pki2.com> wrote:
>>>     On Tue, 2022-01-18 at 12:29 -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     > I really don't know anything about it. It seems really late to be
>>>     > having
>>>     > this fight now, right?
>>>     >
>>>     I worked in aviation as a technologist. Aviation is resistant to
>>>     change.
>>>     Any change. When you fly older aircraft, be aware that the
>>>     software is
>>>     old. Very old. As in some of the vendors long ago stopped
>>>     supporting the
>>>     software kind of old, assuming the vendors still exist.
>>>     Aviation didn't wake up one day with the sudden appearance of
>>>     5G. They
>>>     knew it was comming. They, aviation themselves, are heavily
>>>     involved in
>>>     standards. Aviation had plenty of time to test, correct, and
>>>     protest.
>>>     What aviation now wants is a 5G exclusion zone around airports,
>>>     or what
>>>     I sarcastically call "a technology exclusion zone," which tends
>>>     to be
>>>     businesses and homes. What is aviation going to do when 6G comes
>>>     along?
>>>     A new WiFi standard is implemented? Any other unforeseen future
>>>     wired/wireless technologies? Or perhaps cell phones should go
>>>     back to
>>>     Morse Code for aviation's sake?
>>>     🤷‍♂️️
>>>     -- 
>>>     Dennis Glatting
>>>     Numbers Skeptic
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