netflow in the core used for surveillance

Tom Beecher beecher at
Wed Aug 25 23:43:07 UTC 2021

The NY Times did a story within the last couple years showing how easy it
was to identify an individual solely from purchasing anonymized data
commonly sold by advertisers and the like.

Now take that and be able to pin a person to an IP, and aggregate flow data
to find out everything someone does.

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 7:02 PM jim deleskie <deleskie at> wrote:

> Randy,
>   We all know many folks send their *flow to someone or somewhere.  In
> exchange for pretty graphs for intelligence.  I suspect in many cases this
> data is then reused in many cases for many purposes.  But let's not
> overplay the risk here.  There would be much easier ways for rogue nations,
> bad guys/good/in the middle nation to find out about dissidents, activists,
> and journos than flow data. I think letting any of those people think ToR
> is safe as being a much bigger risk.
> -jim
> Disclosures for those that don't know.  I've never worked with Team Cymru,
> I do know them fairly well and believe them to be the good guys, I do
> currently have a relationship with them, I do not currently work for a
> large SP that sends them data.  I have worked A LOT with flow data over the
> last 20 years, for large SPs, small vendors, and all things in between.
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 6:15 PM Randy Bush <randy at> wrote:
>> used to get dissidents, activists, and journos killed
>> at&t, comcast, ... zayo, please tell us you do not do this.
>> randy
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