US/Canada International border concerns for routing

Rod Beck rod.beck at
Wed Aug 9 12:50:32 UTC 2017

Hi Eric,

Allstream fiber goes counterclockwise from Toronto to Buffalo along the lake. Just like the rest of them. And at several places all these sysgtems are probably in the same conduit.

Finally, all fiber is exhausted Toronto/Buffalo. Existing players could not sell if they wanted to and no one selling dark on this route today.

- R.

From: NANOG <nanog-bounces at> on behalf of Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke at>
Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 4:13 AM
To: Stephen Fulton; nanog at list
Subject: Re: US/Canada International border concerns for routing

It is worth noting, however, that the former AllStream ASN (formerly AT&T
Canada) AS15290 is a completely different thing, and has distinct
infrastructure and routing from the AboveNet ASN which is operated by Zayo.
Although they are probably using "Free" Zayo transport by now.

If I am grossly wrong and anybody from layer 3 network operations at Zayo
wants to chime in and tell us about the 40,000 ft view of their plans to
combine AS15290 and AS6461, I am sure the community would be very

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Stephen Fulton <sf at> wrote:

> TR,
> MTS Allstream is no longer a combined entity.  MTS was purchased by Bell
> Canada and Allstream was purchased by Zayo.
> -- Stephen
> On 2017-08-08 8:19 PM, TR Shaw wrote:
>> Bill,
>> What does Bell buying MTS do? Does it change your statement or will the
>> MTS portion of Bell still peer locally?
>> Tom
>> On Aug 8, 2017, at 8:10 PM, Bill Woodcock <woody at> wrote:
>>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:01 AM, Hiers, David <David.Hiers at> wrote:
>>>> For traffic routing, is anyone constraining cross-border routing
>>>> between Canada and the US?  IOW, if you are routing from Toronto to
>>>> Montreal, do you have to guarantee that the path cannot go through, say,
>>>> Syracuse, New York?
>>> No.  In fact, Bell Canada / Bell Aliant and Telus guarantee that you
>>> _will_ go through Chicago, Seattle, New York, or Ashburn, since none of
>>> them peer anywhere in Canada at all.
>>> Last I checked (November of last year) the best-connected commercial
>>> networks (i.e. not CANARIE) in Canada were Hurricane Electric, MTS
>>> Allstream, Primus, and Zip Telecom, all of which peer at three or more
>>> Canadian IXes.  So, they’re capable of keeping traffic in Canada so long as
>>> the other end isn’t on Bell or Telus, which only sell U.S. bandwidth to
>>> Canadians.
>>> In November, only 27% of intra-Canadian routes stayed within Canada; 64%
>>> went through the U.S.  That’s way worse than five years ago, when 60%
>>> stayed within Canada, and 38% went through the U.S.
>>> As has been pointed out, Canada has been building IXPs…  Just not as
>>> fast as the rest of the world has.  They’re behind the global average
>>> growth rate, and behind the U.S. growth rate, which is why the problem is
>>> getting worse.  Bandwidth costs are falling faster elsewhere, so they’re
>>> importing more foreign bandwidth.
>>>                                 -Bill

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