Cogent - Google - HE Fun

Mon Mar 14 18:42:23 UTC 2016

I wouldn't say that I know what's best. We have had many different providers over the last 20 years that I have been here. We never had an issue with any of them until we added Cogent into the mix. Currently we are using a 300MB lighttower and a 300MB LighPath metro Ethernet connection. 

From my experience VPN software (both IPSEC and SSLVPN) are very susceptible to high packet loss issues. A few retransmissions/out of order/dropped packets aren't a problem. A sustained drop rate of 5-10% is a major issue.

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Matthew Huff             | 1 Manhattanville Rd
Director of Operations   | Purchase, NY 10577
OTA Management LLC       | Phone: 914-460-4039
aim: matthewbhuff        | Fax:   914-694-5669

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew D. Hardeman [mailto:mhardeman at ipifony.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:32 PM
> To: Matthew Huff <mhuff at ox.com>
> Cc: William Herrin <bill at herrin.us>; James Milko <jmilko at gmail.com>;
> nanog at nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Cogent - Google - HE Fun
> 
> I understand.  I tend to take a more market by market view of each
> network rather than a global perspective.  Clearly, for the enterprise
> use case with a diversity of users spread across the globe, or even
> nationally, the use case is a bit different.
> 
> Having said that, I am rather terribly curious...  I’ve not really seen
> any of the major national non-eyeballs who didn’t have congestion at
> some peering points to major eyeball networks for not insignificant
> periods.
> 
> Which transit have you found to be the very best for minimizing those
> concerns in the general case?
> 
> 
> > On Mar 14, 2016, at 1:23 PM, Matthew Huff <mhuff at ox.com> wrote:
> >
> > We don't serve a market. We are a private business. We are multi-homed
> with multiple providers, none of which is an eyeball network. Even if we
> wanted to peer, most of them are not available in our area, but our the
> only choice for some of our employees.
> >
> > Cogent still has congestion issues at various peering points as has
> been reported in this and other mailing lists recently. Like I said, if
> VOIP and VPN aren't an issue, go ahead and use cogent. But if packet
> loss makes your access useless, then avoid them if it all possible.
> YMMV.
> >
> > ----
> > Matthew Huff             | 1 Manhattanville Rd
> > Director of Operations   | Purchase, NY 10577
> > OTA Management LLC       | Phone: 914-460-4039
> > aim: matthewbhuff        | Fax:   914-694-5669
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Matthew D. Hardeman [mailto:mhardeman at ipifony.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:41 PM
> >> To: Matthew Huff <mhuff at ox.com>
> >> Cc: William Herrin <bill at herrin.us>; James Milko <jmilko at gmail.com>;
> >> nanog at nanog.org
> >> Subject: Re: Cogent - Google - HE Fun
> >>
> >> I would have concurred on this not so very long ago, but Cogent has
> made
> >> serious strides in improving this.
> >>
> >> In particular, I think Cogent is fairly trustworthy to at least AT&T
> and
> >> Verizon at this point.
> >>
> >> As for Charter, Comcast, Cox, and the like, I’ve come to believe that
> >> there’s really no substitute for direct interconnection to those guys
> if
> >> they’re part of the market you serve.
> >>
> >> My clients are mostly ISPs and ITSPs and for the over-the-top ITSPs,
> if
> >> they’re serving clients whose broadband access is one of the major
> cable
> >> providers, I always encourage the client to establish a BGP session
> >> directly into that provider (whether purchasing enterprise transit
> from
> >> them, but just accepting customer routes and advertising with a no-
> >> export prefix or formal paid peering, etc.)
> >>
> >> The impact that it has on service quality is measurable and it’s a
> >> significant impact in many cases.
> >>
> >>> On Mar 14, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Matthew Huff <mhuff at ox.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> One caveat about Cogent even as a third or extra provider.
> >>>
> >>> Because of disputes with eyeball networks, there is significant
> >> congestion at peering points with Cogent. We saw consistent 5-10%
> packet
> >> loss over many months traversing Cogent through to Charger, Cox and
> >> Verizon as well as others. For web access and even streaming video,
> with
> >> buffers, this might not be an issue. But for corporate use with VOIP
> >> and/or VPNs, it was a killer. We had to cancel our Cogent service and
> >> work with our remaining providers to de-preference Cogent completely.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>> Matthew Huff             | 1 Manhattanville Rd
> >>> Director of Operations   | Purchase, NY 10577
> >>> OTA Management LLC       | Phone: 914-460-4039
> >>> aim: matthewbhuff        | Fax:   914-694-5669
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of William
> >> Herrin
> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 10:47 AM
> >>>> To: James Milko <jmilko at gmail.com>
> >>>> Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: Cogent - Google - HE Fun
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:14 AM, James Milko <jmilko at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:32 PM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> At the very least, no one who is clueful about "The Internet" is
> >>>>>> single-homed to Cogent with any protocol.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> s/single-homed/dual-homed/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's not like losing Google/HE because your other transit dropped
> is
> >>>>> acceptable.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi James,
> >>>>
> >>>> Cogent is effective at reducing cost as the third or subsequent
> >> provider
> >>>> in one's mix.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Bill Herrin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
> >>>> Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
> >