Legislation and its effects in our world

Fred Baker fred at cisco.com
Wed Feb 25 15:58:33 UTC 2009

If it's at all like the EU Date Retention provisions, it would be in  
the ISP, not the home router. The Danish want the moral equivalent of  
a netflow trace for each user (log of the kind of information netflow  
records for a session for each TCP/UDP/SCTP session the user initiates  
or terminates, produced on presentation of a warrant or subpoena), but  
the EU provisions are more application layer - when did the user "sign  
on" to the wireless network, and when did "s/he sign off", to whom did  
they send emails via the ISP's servers, and so on?

Without commenting on police states and such, instantiating  
legislation is required in each country signatory to the Cybercrime  
Treaty. Both major parties have been on deck during that discussion...

On Feb 25, 2009, at 7:30 AM, David Stearns wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> Avoiding the politics of this issue, I suspect that many more home  
> users
> will be affected than corporate or backbone admins.  I already log all
> access to my wireless, though currently I don't keep outgoing access  
> logs
> for that long.  I suspect that if this were to become law, the logging
> mechanisms in the provided home wireless routers would need a  
> revamp.  Or at
> least their storage method would.
> -DS
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Jim Willis <jim.h.willis at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> After having a brief conversation with a friend of mine over the  
>> weekend
>> about this new proposed legislation I was horrified to find that I  
>> could
>> not
>> dig anything up on it in NANOG. Surely this sort of short minded
>> legislation
>> should have been a bit more thought through in its effects on those  
>> that
>> would have to implement these changes. My major concern is not just  
>> for
>> myself but for a much broader picture.
>> "Republican politicians on Thursday called for a sweeping new  
>> federal law
>> that would require all Internet providers and operators of millions  
>> of
>> Wi-Fi
>> access points, even hotels, local coffee shops, and home users, to  
>> keep
>> records about users for two years to aid police investigations."
>> http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/02/20/internet.records.bill/index.html
>> I understand and agree that minors should be protected and I think  
>> child
>> pornography is awful, however I think how the government is going  
>> about
>> catching these criminals with this new legislation will not really  
>> be any
>> more efficient than there current methods. Having a log of all IP's  
>> that
>> come across my or anyone in America's "home" Wi-Fi for two years is  
>> not
>> going to help "police investigations" but will cause me to have to  
>> go buy a
>> more expensive router.
>> So I'm just wondering, how would this legislation effect some of  
>> you on the
>> NANOG list?
>> -Jim

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