Legislation and its effects in our world

Sean Hunter jamesb2147 at gmail.com
Wed Feb 25 16:12:41 UTC 2009

Sorry to intrude, but it is based on the reading of the law and at least
according to ars technica's article (
that excludes home routers.  That's not to say it couldn't be reinterpreted
in the future.
Also worth noting is that this is a Republican proposition and both sides
still seem a bit bitter about the stimulus.


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Fred Baker <fred at cisco.com> wrote:

> If it's at all like the EU Date Retention provisions, it would be in the
> ISP, not the home router. The Danish want the moral equivalent of a netflow
> trace for each user (log of the kind of information netflow records for a
> session for each TCP/UDP/SCTP session the user initiates or terminates,
> produced on presentation of a warrant or subpoena), but the EU provisions
> are more application layer - when did the user "sign on" to the wireless
> network, and when did "s/he sign off", to whom did they send emails via the
> ISP's servers, and so on?
> Without commenting on police states and such, instantiating legislation is
> required in each country signatory to the Cybercrime Treaty. Both major
> parties have been on deck during that discussion...
> On Feb 25, 2009, at 7:30 AM, David Stearns wrote:
>  Hi Jim,
>> Avoiding the politics of this issue, I suspect that many more home users
>> will be affected than corporate or backbone admins.  I already log all
>> access to my wireless, though currently I don't keep outgoing access logs
>> for that long.  I suspect that if this were to become law, the logging
>> mechanisms in the provided home wireless routers would need a revamp.  Or
>> at
>> least their storage method would.
>> -DS
>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Jim Willis <jim.h.willis at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>  After having a brief conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend
>>> about this new proposed legislation I was horrified to find that I could
>>> not
>>> dig anything up on it in NANOG. Surely this sort of short minded
>>> legislation
>>> should have been a bit more thought through in its effects on those that
>>> would have to implement these changes. My major concern is not just for
>>> myself but for a much broader picture.
>>> "Republican politicians on Thursday called for a sweeping new federal law
>>> that would require all Internet providers and operators of millions of
>>> Wi-Fi
>>> access points, even hotels, local coffee shops, and home users, to keep
>>> records about users for two years to aid police investigations."
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/02/20/internet.records.bill/index.html
>>> I understand and agree that minors should be protected and I think child
>>> pornography is awful, however I think how the government is going about
>>> catching these criminals with this new legislation will not really be any
>>> more efficient than there current methods. Having a log of all IP's that
>>> come across my or anyone in America's "home" Wi-Fi for two years is not
>>> going to help "police investigations" but will cause me to have to go buy
>>> a
>>> more expensive router.
>>> So I'm just wondering, how would this legislation effect some of you on
>>> the
>>> NANOG list?
>>> -Jim

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