Do ISP's collect and analyze traffic of users?

Tue May 16 14:35:01 UTC 2023

+1 to what Josh writes below. I would also differentiate between mobile networks (service provisioned to individual devices & often carrier s/w on the device) and wireline networks (home devices behind a router/gateway/NAT).

I just don't think sale of data is a business for wireline ISPs. If it were - given most companies are public - you'd see it in SEC 10K filings and on earnings calls. Indeed, they'd be required to talk about it with investors if it was a material revenue stream. I see none of that. Rather, the focus is on subscription revenue. If you want to know about data monetization - focus on services you don't pay for...

Jason

From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jason_livingood=cable.comcast.com at nanog.org> on behalf of Josh Luthman <josh at imaginenetworksllc.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 09:43
To: Tom Beecher <beecher at beecher.cc>
Cc: "nanog at nanog.org" <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: Do ISP's collect and analyze traffic of users?

Our ISP does not collect (nor obviously sell) customer information/traffic.  People volunteer all of their information on Facebook/Twitter/etc already, I'm not sure I see a concern.

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 9:07 AM Tom Beecher <beecher at beecher.cc<mailto:beecher at beecher.cc>> wrote:
I did see an article about Team Cymru selling netflow data from ISPs to governments though.

Team Cymru sold the same thing to the FBI Cyber Crimes division that any of us could purchase if we wanted to pay for it.

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:52 AM Rishi Panthee <rishipanthee at ryamer.com<mailto:rishipanthee at ryamer.com>> wrote:
I’ve got Akvorado and netflow to identify where traffic comes in/goes to so we can improve our peering and make less traffic go via transit. I did see an article about Team Cymru selling netflow data from ISPs to governments though. https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy3z9a/fbi-bought-netflow-data-team-cymru-contract<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.vice.com/en/article/dy3z9a/fbi-bought-netflow-data-team-cymru-contract__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!AdX4KK2veZ3cQX8jQB2xomCrDsHIFeUu9Ciu6M3tgLwYWOMpvKk2AV5L55a2sX9721iC7E8Q9tyi0lVDpsDtqP5dOgn8cQ$>

Rishi Panthee
Ryamer LLC
Https://ryamer.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__Https:/ryamer.com__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!AdX4KK2veZ3cQX8jQB2xomCrDsHIFeUu9Ciu6M3tgLwYWOMpvKk2AV5L55a2sX9721iC7E8Q9tyi0lVDpsDtqP7ptkTZDg$>
rishipanthee at ryamer.com<mailto:rishipanthee at ryamer.com>

On May 15, 2023, at 5:59 PM, Michael Thomas <mike at mtcc.com<mailto:mike at mtcc.com>> wrote:

And maybe try to monetize it? I'm pretty sure that they can be compelled to do that, but do they do it for their own reasons too? Or is this way too much overhead to be doing en mass? (I vaguely recall that netflow, for example, can make routers unhappy if there is too much "flow").

Obviously this is likely to depend on local laws but since this is NANOG we can limit it to here.

Mike

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