Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed

Fri Jun 3 23:00:02 UTC 2016

"What you are NOT allowed to do is impose new requirements on our Internet
to support your business licensing models and make it our problem"

They're not imposing *new* regulation on *your* internet to support their
business licensing models - they're imposing *existing* (and international)
regulations on someone else's business that *existing* distributors provide
controls for.

And that many *existing* online distributors provide controls for - hence
why they should be using the *most local* method of locating a person - ask
for permission to get the location from their *device first* (as is
possible nowadays), then try to get the location from any one of other
fallback methods (namely, IP geolocation).

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:22 PM Naslund, Steve <SNaslund at medline.com> wrote:

> ISPs should not be in the business of helping distributors come up with
> “novel ways” to help them regionalize.  It’s counterproductive to the ISPs
> main purpose which is to get their customers “the whole Internet”, from
> anywhere to anywhere no matter where you are.
>
> As far as TV channels, that is an unrelated issue because they have their
> own distribution network, they can freely choose what cable systems and
> what satellite systems they want to license to.  What you are NOT allowed
> to do is impose new requirements on our Internet to support your business
> licensing models and make it our problem.  This is no different than
> someone like Microsoft saying “hey service providers, we don’t want you to
> carry any network traffic from illegal copies of Outlook” and expecting us
> to figure it out.  I know as service providers we have to be sensitive to
> our customers but Netflix is also a service provider and should be taking
> the heat from their own customers.  Netflix authored a broken process and
> now we should be expected to re-engineer the network to eliminate V6 tunnel
> brokers?!?!?!  I don’t think so Netflix.
>
> If I was still an ISP today, I would be sending all of my customers a memo
> explaining how badly Netflix VPN detection works and why it is so hard for
> us to help with it and why they should be complaining to Netflix.
>
> Steven Naslund
>
> From: Cryptographrix [mailto:cryptographrix at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 5:06 PM
> To: Naslund, Steve; nanog at nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed
>
> There's really no point in whining about content providers and
> regionalization as long as TV channels are still a thing.
>
> I get that the internet totally annihilated borders of all kind (including
> the book store), but some businesses change slower than others, and content
> production is still back in the black-and-white TV days because even new
> content producers don't have that new of a business model.
>
> But nor are ISPs coming up with novel ways for distributors to offer more
> reliable regionalization services (and most of them were in the content
> regionalization business long before the Internet came around).
>
> Pick one of those two problems and make a business to solve them.
>
> Until then, Netflix's developers could at least use the "novel" solution
> of tiering the most accurate forms of location before hitting IP
> geolocation.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:52 PM Naslund, Steve <SNaslund at medline.com
> <mailto:SNaslund at medline.com>> wrote:
> Actually it's time for Netflix to get out of the network transport
> business and tell the content providers to get over it or not get carried
> on Netflix.  It used to be that Netflix needed content providers, now I am
> starting to believe it might be the other way around.  Netflix might have
> to take a page from the satellite guys and start calling them out
> publicly.  i.e. "Netflix will no longer be able to provide you with Warner
> Bros. content because they are dinosaurs that are worried that someone
> might be watching in the wrong country.  We are pleased to offer you
> content from producers that are not complete morons...."
>
> As the content producers lose more and more control over the distribution
> channel they are going to take whatever terms are necessary to get them on
> Netflix, Apple TV, Comcast, Time Warner, DirecTV and Dish.  If you are not
> on any or all of those platforms, you are going to be dead meat.   Who
> would be hurt worse, Netflix or the movie producer that got seen nowhere on
> their latest film.  To me, this is the last gasp of an industry that lost
> control of its distribution channel years ago and is still trying to impose
> that control.
>
> Steven Naslund
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org>]
> On Behalf Of Mark Andrews
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 4:28 PM
> To: Laszlo Hanyecz
> Cc: nanog at nanog.org<mailto:nanog at nanog.org>
> Subject: Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed
>
>
> It's time for Netflix to offer IPv6 tunnels.  That way they can correlate
> IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.  Longest match will result is the correct source
> address being selected if they do the job correctly.
>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org<mailto:
> marka at isc.org>
>