enterprise 802.11

Mon Jan 16 02:09:22 UTC 2012

No one has mentioned Belair yet? Serves the Minneapolis network pretty well.

http://www.belairnetworks.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Ihnen <os10rules at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:06:26 
To: Nathan Eisenberg<nathan at atlasnetworks.us>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org<nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: enterprise 802.11

Since we're already top-posting…

I've heard a lot of talk on the WISPA (wireless ISP) forum that 802.11g/n starts to fall apart with more than 30 clients associated if they're all reasonably active. I believe this is a limitation of 802.11g/n's media access control (MAC) mechanism, regardless of who's brand is on the box. This is most important if you're doing VoIP or anything else where latency and jitter is an issue.

To get around that limitation, folks are using proprietary protocols with "polling" media access control. Ubiquiti calls theirs AirMax. Cisco uses something different in the "Canopy" line. But of course then you've gone to something proprietary and only their gear can connect. So it's meant more for back-hauls and distribution networks, not for end users unless they use a proprietary CPE.

Since you need consumer gear to be able to connect, you need to stick with 802.11g/n. You should limit to 30 clients per AP. You should stagger your 2.4GHZ APs on channels 1, 6 and 11, and turn the TX power down and have them spaced close enough that no more than 30 will end up connecting to a single AP. 5.8GHz APs would be better, and you'll want to stagger their channels too and turn the TX power down so each one has a small footprint to only serve those clients that are nearby.

Stay away from "mesh" solutions and WDS where one AP repeats another, that kills throughput because it hogs airtime. You'll want to feed all the APs with Ethernet.

Greg

On Jan 15, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Nathan Eisenberg wrote:

> Ubiquiti's Unifi products are decent, and have *MUCH* improved since their original release (amazing what you can do with better code!).  In the original release, you had to have a management server running on the same L2 network as the Aps - they've moved the management to a L3 model so you can put the controller elsewhere.  The big PITA with their system is that any change requires 'reprovisioning' the APs, which means rebooting all of them in sequence.  They've added VLANs, multiple SSID's/AP, wireless backhaul/chaining, guest portalling, and limiters to balance the # of clients / AP.
> 
> In a noisy environment, I've found that they top out at around 30 devices / AP for good performance, and 50 devices / AP for 'working/not working'.  In a clean environment, I've seen decent performance with 70 - 100 devices / AP.  Of course, if one bad client comes along (with a card that doesn't backoff its TX power, etc), it can wreak havoc with higher densities.  You really can't argue with Unifi's price.
> 
> If you move up the price scale, Meraki seems to be a good midrange solution, and they have some really sweet reporting functionality.  They're more expensive, though.
> 
> And then, yes, Cisco is the gold standard, but it will cost you some gold to get it.
> 
> Nathan
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Lyon [mailto:mike.lyon at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:54 AM
>> To: Meftah Tayeb
>> Cc: nanog at nanog.org
>> Subject: Re: enterprise 802.11
>> 
>> Ubiquity (www.ubnt.com) has their Unifi line of products. It's still pretty new
>> in the marketspace and this, working out the bugs. I use their other products
>> exclusively for outdoor wireless.
>> 
>> However, in the offices ive done, ive used Cisco's WLC 4402 controller which
>> supports 12 access points. They have controllers which support more APs as
>> well.
>> 
>> Hit me up offlist if you have any quesrions.
>> 
>> -mike
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 15, 2012, at 11:39, Meftah Tayeb <tayeb.meftah at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ubiquity
>>> or ubikity, maybe is miss spelled
>>> Someone correct the spelling for him please thank you
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken King" <kking at yammer-inc.com>
>>> To: <nanog at nanog.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:30 PM
>>> Subject: enterprise 802.11
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I need to choose a wireless solution for a new office.
>>> 
>>> up to 600 devices will connect.  most devices are mac books and mobile
>> phones.
>>> 
>>> we can see hundreds of access points in close proximity to our new office
>> space.
>>> 
>>> what are the thoughts these days on the best enterprise solution/vendor?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your replies.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken King
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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>>> http://www.eset.com
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>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature database 6793 (20120113) __________
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>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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>> 
> 
> 