<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000'>Yet the independents are doing it anyway.<br><br><div><span name="x"></span><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new 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noopener noreferrer"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png" style="border:0pt none" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png"></a><span name="x"></span><br></div><hr id="zwchr"><div style="color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>From: </b>"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com><br><b>To: </b>"Forrest Christian (List Account)" <lists@packetflux.com><br><b>Cc: </b>"nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org><br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, February 2, 2023 6:46:01 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: Spectrum (legacy TWC) Infrastructure - Contact Off List<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div>It might look low cost until you look at a post-1980s suburb in the USA or Canada where 100% of the utilities are underground. There may be no fiber or duct routes. Just old coax used for DOCSIS3 owned/run by the local cable incumbent and copper POTS wiring belonging to the ILEC. The cost to retrofit such a neighborhood and reach every house with a fiber architecture can be quite high in construction and labor. <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 9:14 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <<a href="mailto:lists@packetflux.com" target="_blank">lists@packetflux.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">The cost to build physical layer in much of the suburban and somewhat rural US is low enough anymore that lots of smaller, independent, ISPs are overbuilding the incumbent with fiber and taking a big chunk of their customer base because they are local and care. And making money while doing it. <div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 2, 2023, 8:22 AM Masataka Ohta <<a href="mailto:mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp" target="_blank">mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Mike Hammett wrote:<br>
<br>
> I selfishly hope they don't because that's where independent<br>
> operators will succeed. ;-)<br>
<br>
Because of natural regional monopoly at physical layer (cabling<br>
cost for a certain region is same between competitors but their<br>
revenues are proportional to their regional market shares), they<br>
can't succeed unless the physical layer is regulated to be<br>
unbundled, which is hard with PON.<br>
<br>
But, in US where regional telephone network has been operated<br>
by, unlike Europe/Japan, a private company enjoying natural<br>
regional monopoly, economic situation today should be no worse<br>
than that at that time.<br>
<br>
Masataka Ohta<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
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