<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000'>I guess I wasn't around for those days.<div><br></div><div>As far as running out, again, assuming the tooling works correctly, I'd think to target fewer routes than you could hold. Maybe 1k routes is all one would need to get a significant percent of the traffic. A lot of room to mess up if you can hold 100k, 500k routes.<br><div><br><div><span name="x"></span><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline !important;float:none">-----</span><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new 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noopener noreferrer"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png" style="border:0pt none"></a><span name="x"></span><br></div><hr id="zwchr"><div style="color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>From: </b>"Joe Maimon" <jmaimon@jmaimon.com><br><b>To: </b>"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>, "Christopher Morrow" <morrowc.lists@gmail.com><br><b>Cc: </b>"NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org><br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, January 5, 2023 2:30:40 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: SDN Internet Router (sir)<br><br><br><br>Mike Hammett wrote:<br>> I'm not concerned with which technology or buzzword gets the job done, <br>> only that the job is done.<br>><br>><br>><br>> Looking briefly at the couple of things out there, they're evaluating <br>> the top X prefixes in terms of traffic reported by s-flow, where X is <br>> the number I define, and those get pushed into the FIB. One <br>> recalculates every hour, one does so more quickly. How much is <br>> appropriate? I'm not sure. I can't imagine it would *NEED* to be done <br>> all of that often, given the traffic/prefix density an eyeball network <br>> will have. Default routes carry the rest. Default routes could be <br>> handled outside of this process, such that if this process fails, you <br>> just get some sub-optimal routing until repaired. Maybe it doesn't <br>> filter properly and sends a bunch of routes. Then just have a prefix <br>> limit set on the box. Maybe it sends the wrong prefixes. No harm, no <br>> foul. If you're routing sub-optimally internally, when it does hit a <br>> real router with a full FIB, it gets handled appropriately.<br><br>Unless it loops.<br><br>The rest sounds nice. But flow caching got a bad rap back in the early <br>worm days. But thats because the situation was a little worse back then. <br>Cache the wrong routes or run out of cache, router dies. So long as <br>thats not the case automating optimization is an extremely valuable goal.<br><br>><br>><br>> I would just be looking for solutions that influence what's in the FIB <br>> and let the rest of the router work as the rest of the router would.<br><br>The problem comes when the router wont work at all without the FIB <br>routes, like in the olden days.<br>><br>><br>><br>> -----<br>> Mike Hammett<br>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/><br>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL><br>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/><br>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix><br>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/><br>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> *From: *"Christopher Morrow" <morrowc.lists@gmail.com><br>> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net><br>> *Cc: *"Tom Beecher" <beecher@beecher.cc>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org><br>> *Sent: *Thursday, January 5, 2023 12:27:08 PM<br>> *Subject: *Re: SDN Internet Router (sir)<br>><br>><br>><br>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 11:18 AM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net <br>> <mailto:nanog@ics-il.net>> wrote:<br>><br>> Initially, my thought was to use community filtering to push just<br>> IXes, customers, and defaults throughout the network, but that's<br>> obviously still sub-optimal.<br>><br>> I'd be surprised if a last mile network had a ton of traffic going<br>> to any more than a few hundred prefixes.<br>><br>><br>> I think in a low-fib box at the edge of your network your choices are:<br>> "the easy choice, get default, follow that"<br>><br>> "send some limited set of prefixes to the device, and default, so <br>> you MAY choose better for the initial hop away"<br>><br>> you certainly can do the second with communities, or route-filters <br>> (prefix-list) on the senders, or....<br>> you can choose what prefixes make the cut (get the community(ies)) <br>> based on traffic volumes or expected destination locality:<br>> "do not go east to go west!"<br>><br>> these things will introduce toil and SOME suboptimal routing in some <br>> instances... perhaps it's better than per flow choosing left/right <br>> though and the support calls related to that choice.<br>><br>> In your NOLA / DFW / ATL example it's totally possible that the <br>> networks in question do something like:<br>> "low fib box in tier-2 city (NOLA), dfz capable/core devices in <br>> tier-1 city (DFW/ATL), and send default from left/right to NOLA"<br>><br>> Could they send more prefixes than default? sure... do they want to <br>> deal with the toil that induces? (probably not says your example).<br>><br>> SDN isn't really an answer to this, though.. I don't think. Unless you <br>> envision that to lower the toil ?<br>><br><br></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>