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    <p>lol<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">21.08.2022 04:28 tarihinde
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jkinney23@yahoo.ca">jkinney23@yahoo.ca</a> yazdı:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1817728640.756752.1661045310421@mail.yahoo.com">
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      <div> Good thing they have someone with a dish washing skill-set
        to clean up their inbox's for them.<br>
      </div>
      <div class="yahoo_quoted" style="margin:10px 0px 0px
        0.8ex;border-left:1px solid #ccc;padding-left:1ex;">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div> On Saturday, August 20, 2022, 06:01:34 p.m. PDT, Peter
            Potvin via NANOG <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"><nanog@nanog.org></a> wrote: </div>
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          <div>
            <div id="yiv4829803234">
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                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div>Hey all,</div>
                  <div><br clear="none">
                  </div>
                  <div>Removing Cogent personnel and peering departments
                    from this thread as I'm sure they don't appreciate
                    the nonsense coming from this list.</div>
                  <div><br clear="none">
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr"
                          class="yiv4829803234gmail_signature">
                          <div dir="ltr">Regards,
                            <div>Peter Potvin | Executive Director</div>
                            <div>------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
                            <b>Accuris Technologies Ltd.</b><br
                              clear="none">
                            <div>11-300 Earl Grey Drive, Suite #124,
                              Kanata, Ontario K2T1C1 Canada</div>
                            <div>Email: <a shape="rect"
                                ymailto="mailto:peter.potvin@accuristechnologies.ca"
href="mailto:peter.potvin@accuristechnologies.ca" target="_blank"
                                rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">peter.potvin@accuristechnologies.ca</a></div>
                            <div>Office: +1 (877) 352-6105</div>
                            <div>Network Operations Centre: +1 (877)
                              321-1662<br clear="none">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br clear="none">
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                <div id="yiv4829803234yqt13273"
                  class="yiv4829803234yqt0307737795">
                  <div class="yiv4829803234gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="yiv4829803234gmail_attr">On
                      Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 8:51 PM VOLKAN KIRIK <<a
                        shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com"
                        href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                        rel="noreferrer noopener" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">volkirik@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:<br clear="none">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                      0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"
                      class="yiv4829803234gmail_quote">
                      <div>
                        <p>yea whatever..</p>
                        <p> its upto mike leber and dave schaeffer to
                          decide. they can either accept or reject the
                          solution<br clear="none">
                        </p>
                        <p>I have been always believing content
                          creator/provider should pay expenses (at least
                          excess traffic).</p>
                        <p>because they put their server in some
                          datacenter and reach all of the internet..
                          their backbone expenses are less..</p>
                        <p>i can understand that todays datacenters
                          including <a shape="rect"
                            href="http://he.net" target="_blank"
                            rel="noreferrer noopener"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">he.net</a> are
                          interested to participate in 200-300 IXPs.</p>
                        <p>well that acceptable. it should be considered
                          too</p>
                        <p>so i would offer both companies 3 cent per
                          mbps for excess traffic.</p>
                        <p>ok bye</p>
                        <p><br clear="none">
                        </p>
                        <div>21.08.2022 03:25 tarihinde Forrest
                          Christian (List Account) yazdı:<br
                            clear="none">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>But that traffic was likely requested by
                            and for the benefit of the person the
                            traffic is being sent to.
                            <div><br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <div>I've always found the argument that the
                              quantity of traffic is the indicator of
                              who should pay to be questionable. </div>
                            <div><br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <div>If I'm an end user on an eyeball user
                              and request a big download or streaming
                              from a provider, isn't it me that caused
                              that traffic to flow?  One could argue
                              that I am the one that needs to pay. </div>
                            <div><br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <div>On the other hand, one could argue that
                              it's the provider of the content that I
                              requested that needs to pay, since it's
                              their content which is being distributed.</div>
                            <div><br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <div>When you get to peering between two
                              providers it's almost impossible to decide
                              who needs to pay.    As I mentioned above,
                              passing that traffic is actually to the
                              benefit of both providers.</div>
                            <div><br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <div>About the only settlement I could see
                              is where one of the providers is bearing
                              most of the transport costs.  For example
                              a regional provider only peering at one
                              exchange point might expect some
                              settlement costs with a big international
                              provider that is effectively carrying
                              their traffic both directions around the
                              globe.  But the quantity of that type of
                              traffic is likely minimal in the grand
                              scheme of things.     Even then one might
                              argue that connectivity to the small
                              provider is still valuable to the
                              customers of the large provider.</div>
                          </div>
                          <br clear="none">
                          <div class="yiv4829803234gmail_quote">
                            <div dir="ltr"
                              class="yiv4829803234gmail_attr">On Fri,
                              Aug 19, 2022, 9:32 AM VOLKAN KIRIK <<a
                                shape="rect"
                                ymailto="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com"
                                href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
                                noopener" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">volkirik@gmail.com</a>>
                              wrote:<br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"
                              class="yiv4829803234gmail_quote">
                              <div>
                                <p>the more uploading side pays each
                                  month for the excess amount.</p>
                                <p>as content networks are supposed to
                                  pay expenses.</p>
                                <p><br clear="none">
                                </p>
                                <p>what do you think?</p>
                                <p><br clear="none">
                                </p>
                                <div>19.08.2022 18:28 tarihinde Mike
                                  Hammett yazdı:<br clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div style="font-family:arial,
                                    helvetica,
                                    sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">The
                                    problem them becomes *who* pays?
                                    When do the tables turn as to who
                                    pays?
                                    <div><br clear="none">
                                    </div>
                                    <div>The alpha gets paid and the
                                      beta does the paying?</div>
                                    <div><br clear="none">
                                    </div>
                                    <div>The network with more POPs gets
                                      paid?<br clear="none">
                                      <br clear="none">
                                      The network with more downstream
                                      ASes gets paid?</div>
                                    <div><br clear="none">
                                    </div>
                                    <div>Is it the same for IPv4 as it
                                      is for IPv6?<br clear="none">
                                      <br clear="none">
                                      <div><span></span><br clear="none">
                                        <br clear="none">
                                        <span>-----</span><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <span>Mike Hammett</span><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          href="http://www.ics-il.com/"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">Intelligent
                                          Computing Solutions</a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          href="https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          href="https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          href="https://twitter.com/ICSIL"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">Midwest
                                          Internet Exchange</a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          href="https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          href="https://twitter.com/mdwestix"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          href="http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">The
                                          Brothers WISP</a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          href="https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img
                                            src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png"
                                            style="border:0pt none;"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a><span></span><br
                                          clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <hr
id="yiv4829803234gmail-m_-3535852313819565836m_-2166109507843361046zwchr">
                                      <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,
                                        Arial,
                                        sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>From:
                                        </b>"VOLKAN KIRIK" <a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          ymailto="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com"
href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
                                          noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><volkirik@gmail.com></a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <b>To: </b>"Rubens Kuhl" <a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          ymailto="mailto:rubensk@gmail.com"
href="mailto:rubensk@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
                                          noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><rubensk@gmail.com></a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <b>Cc: </b><a shape="rect"
                                          ymailto="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"
                                          href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nanog@nanog.org</a>,
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          ymailto="mailto:dschaeffer@cogentco.com"
href="mailto:dschaeffer@cogentco.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
                                          noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dschaeffer@cogentco.com</a>,
                                        <a shape="rect"
                                          ymailto="mailto:peering@cogentco.com"
href="mailto:peering@cogentco.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
                                          noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">peering@cogentco.com</a><br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <b>Sent: </b>Friday, August 19,
                                        2022 10:22:00 AM<br clear="none">
                                        <b>Subject: </b>Re: cogent and
                                        henet not peering<br
                                          clear="none">
                                        <br clear="none">
                                        <p>this is 50/50 situation.
                                          nobody has to peer for free.</p>
                                        <p>but everyone can.</p>
                                        <p>lets just say above 1:1 ratio
                                          <a shape="rect"
                                            href="http://he.net"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">he.net</a>
                                          pays their own ip transit
                                          price to cogent for paid
                                          peering excess amount and both
                                          sides monitor traffic</p>
                                        <p>we can solve this issue by
                                          becoming middlemen
                                          worldwide...</p>
                                        <p>both operators are cheap and
                                          they could all compete in
                                          quality.</p>
                                        <p>level3 pays comcast
                                          reasonable (cheap) price
                                          (under NDA maybe?). why
                                          wouldnt mleber?</p>
                                        <p>but to make it fair, as <a
                                            shape="rect"
                                            href="http://he.net"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            rel="noreferrer noopener"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">he.net</a>
                                          becomes ww tier-1 operator
                                          day-by-day, lets just limit
                                          pricing to excess amount of
                                          traffic</p>
                                        <p>thanks for reading</p>
                                        <p>would appreciate your support</p>
                                        <p><br clear="none">
                                        </p>
                                        <div>19.08.2022 18:09 tarihinde
                                          Rubens Kuhl yazdı:<br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote>
                                          <pre>OTOH, knowing that Cogent loves splitting the global Internet is onegood reason to not contract their services.I think they sell traffic to their private Intranet. Which is huge,but doesn't encompass the whole Internet.RubensOn Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 12:04 PM VOLKAN KIRIK <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com" href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener" moz-do-not-send="true"><volkirik@gmail.com></a> wrote:</pre>
                                          <blockquote>
                                            <pre>lets just say cogent gives 400GE in each pop they have in common with <a shape="rect" href="http://he.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener" moz-do-not-send="true">he.net</a> for free.BUT they will rate-limit <a shape="rect" href="http://he.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener" moz-do-not-send="true">he.net</a> links to previous month's 95th percentile upload or download (which is minimum) rate (each month)to make ratio 1:1... to make downstream and upstream traffics fair...okay?fine?come on people,segmentation is bad.</pre>
                                          </blockquote>
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                                    </div>
                                  </div>
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                              </div>
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                          </div>
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                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
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                <br clear="none">
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                    destinataire(s) visé(s). Le gestionnaire de système
                    du courrier électronique de l'expéditeur pourrait
                    avoir accès à ce message, l'examiner et le
                    divulguer. Si ce message vous est transmis par
                    erreur, veuillez nous en aviser par courrier
                    électronique à notre adresse, afin que l'on puisse
                    corriger nos registres, puis veuillez le supprimer
                    immédiatement, sans le lire, le copier ou le
                    transmettre à des tiers. Tout examen, toute
                    utilisation, divulgation ou distribution non
                    autorisé de cette information est interdit.</font></div>
                <div><font color="#000000">Droit d'auteur © 2022 <span><span><span><span>Accuris
                            Technologies Ltd</span></span></span></span>.
                    Tous droits réservés.</font></div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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