<div dir="ltr"><div>Hey all,</div><div><br></div><div>Removing Cogent personnel and peering departments from this thread as I'm sure they don't appreciate the nonsense coming from this list.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Regards,<div>Peter Potvin | Executive Director</div><div>------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><b>Accuris Technologies Ltd.</b><br><div>11-300 Earl Grey Drive, Suite #124, Kanata, Ontario K2T1C1 Canada</div><div>Email: <a href="mailto:peter.potvin@accuristechnologies.ca" target="_blank">peter.potvin@accuristechnologies.ca</a></div><div>Office: +1 (877) 352-6105</div><div>Network Operations Centre: +1 (877) 321-1662<br></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 8:51 PM VOLKAN KIRIK <<a href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com">volkirik@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>yea whatever..</p>
<p> its upto mike leber and dave schaeffer to decide. they can
either accept or reject the solution<br>
</p>
<p>I have been always believing content creator/provider should pay
expenses (at least excess traffic).</p>
<p>because they put their server in some datacenter and reach all of
the internet.. their backbone expenses are less..</p>
<p>i can understand that todays datacenters including <a href="http://he.net" target="_blank">he.net</a> are
interested to participate in 200-300 IXPs.</p>
<p>well that acceptable. it should be considered too</p>
<p>so i would offer both companies 3 cent per mbps for excess
traffic.</p>
<p>ok bye</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>21.08.2022 03:25 tarihinde Forrest
Christian (List Account) yazdı:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">But that traffic was likely requested by and for
the benefit of the person the traffic is being sent to.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I've always found the argument that the quantity
of traffic is the indicator of who should pay to be
questionable. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If I'm an end user on an eyeball user and
request a big download or streaming from a provider, isn't it
me that caused that traffic to flow? One could argue that I
am the one that needs to pay. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">On the other hand, one could argue that it's the
provider of the content that I requested that needs to pay,
since it's their content which is being distributed.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">When you get to peering between two providers
it's almost impossible to decide who needs to pay. As I
mentioned above, passing that traffic is actually to the
benefit of both providers.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">About the only settlement I could see is where
one of the providers is bearing most of the transport costs.
For example a regional provider only peering at one exchange
point might expect some settlement costs with a big
international provider that is effectively carrying their
traffic both directions around the globe. But the quantity of
that type of traffic is likely minimal in the grand scheme of
things. Even then one might argue that connectivity to the
small provider is still valuable to the customers of the large
provider.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:32 AM
VOLKAN KIRIK <<a href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com" target="_blank">volkirik@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>the more uploading side pays each month for the excess
amount.</p>
<p>as content networks are supposed to pay expenses.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>what do you think?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>19.08.2022 18:28 tarihinde Mike Hammett yazdı:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">The
problem them becomes *who* pays? When do the tables turn
as to who pays?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The alpha gets paid and the beta does the paying?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The network with more POPs gets paid?<br>
<br>
The network with more downstream ASes gets paid?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is it the same for IPv4 as it is for IPv6?<br>
<br>
<div><span name="x"></span><br>
<br>
<span>-----</span><br>
<span>Mike Hammett</span><br>
<a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" rel="nofollow
noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Intelligent Computing
Solutions</a><br>
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Brothers WISP</a><br>
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</div>
<hr id="gmail-m_-3535852313819565836m_-2166109507843361046zwchr">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><b>From:
</b>"VOLKAN KIRIK" <a href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><volkirik@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Rubens Kuhl" <a href="mailto:rubensk@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><rubensk@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a>,
<a href="mailto:dschaeffer@cogentco.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dschaeffer@cogentco.com</a>,
<a href="mailto:peering@cogentco.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">peering@cogentco.com</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, August 19, 2022 10:22:00 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: cogent and henet not peering<br>
<br>
<p>this is 50/50 situation. nobody has to peer for
free.</p>
<p>but everyone can.</p>
<p>lets just say above 1:1 ratio <a href="http://he.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">he.net</a>
pays their own ip transit price to cogent for paid
peering excess amount and both sides monitor
traffic</p>
<p>we can solve this issue by becoming middlemen
worldwide...</p>
<p>both operators are cheap and they could all
compete in quality.</p>
<p>level3 pays comcast reasonable (cheap) price
(under NDA maybe?). why wouldnt mleber?</p>
<p>but to make it fair, as <a href="http://he.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">he.net</a> becomes ww
tier-1 operator day-by-day, lets just limit
pricing to excess amount of traffic</p>
<p>thanks for reading</p>
<p>would appreciate your support</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>19.08.2022 18:09 tarihinde Rubens Kuhl yazdı:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<pre>OTOH, knowing that Cogent loves splitting the global Internet is one
good reason to not contract their services.
I think they sell traffic to their private Intranet. Which is huge,
but doesn't encompass the whole Internet.
Rubens
On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 12:04 PM VOLKAN KIRIK <a href="mailto:volkirik@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><volkirik@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote>
<pre>lets just say cogent gives 400GE in each pop they have in common with <a href="http://he.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">he.net</a> for free.
BUT they will rate-limit <a href="http://he.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">he.net</a> links to previous month's 95th percentile upload or download (which is minimum) rate (each month)
to make ratio 1:1... to make downstream and upstream traffics fair...
okay?
fine?
come on people,
segmentation is bad.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<br>
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