<div dir="ltr"><div>If one watches the activity in the tower/outside plant construction side of things, Dish recent went into a burst of activity in hiring tower contractors and signing leases on monopoles, towers and other sites in a "use it or lose it" necessity to have <i>some</i> sort of LTE radios actually mounted, powered up and on the air, even if there were no customers connected to the equipment. <br></div><div><br></div><div>They're still doing it as far as I know. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 at 12:42, <a href="mailto:nanog@jima.us">nanog@jima.us</a> <<a href="mailto:nanog@jima.us">nanog@jima.us</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US">
<div class="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Also, to be a little clearer, Dish’s entrance to the cellular world was a byproduct of the T-Mobile/Sprint merger. There were understandably some concerns with reducing the nationwide competitive landscape
down to three carriers, so they had to agree to help prop up a replacement competitor.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> NANOG <nanog-bounces+nanog=<a href="mailto:jima.us@nanog.org" target="_blank">jima.us@nanog.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:blakangel@gmail.com" target="_blank">blakangel@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 26, 2022 00:34<br>
<b>To:</b> Mike Hammett <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net" target="_blank">nanog@ics-il.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: What say you, nanog re: Starlink vs 5G?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike Hammett wrote on 6/24/2022 1:22 PM:<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">It's DirecTV that became part of AT&T, but now they're separated again.<br>
<br>
Dish Network is building a nation-wide terrestrial mobile network. Supposed to be the new #4 provider.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Looks like their plans just hit a snag -<br>
D.C. court confirms Dish cheated on 5G spectrum bidding, revokes $3.4 billion in credits<br>
<a href="https://www.phonearena.com/news/dish-bidding-5g-spectrum-credits-appeal_id140935" target="_blank">https://www.phonearena.com/news/dish-bidding-5g-spectrum-credits-appeal_id140935</a><br>
<br>
Court decision on the spectrum was decided 6/21:<br>
<a href="https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/21AC89289C589E4F85258868004F9B7F/$file/18-1209-1951147.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/21AC89289C589E4F85258868004F9B7F/$file/18-1209-1951147.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br>
<br>
-----<br>
Mike Hammett<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">Intelligent Computing Solutions</span></a></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br>
</span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_1" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_2" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_3" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ICSIL" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_4" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">Midwest Internet Exchange</span></a></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br>
</span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_5" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_6" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/mdwestix" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_7" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">The Brothers WISP</span></a></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br>
</span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_8" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 1.0416in; height: 1.0416in;" id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623Picture_x0020_9" alt="Image removed by sender." width="100" height="100" border="0"></span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<hr id="gmail-m_-3601209173812942623zwchr" width="100%" size="2" align="center">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">"Owen DeLong via NANOG"
<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank"><nanog@nanog.org></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Michael Thomas" <a href="mailto:mike@mtcc.com" target="_blank"><mike@mtcc.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, June 24, 2022 3:14:33 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: What say you, nanog re: Starlink vs 5G?<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On Jun 24, 2022, at 13:12 , Michael Thomas <<a href="mailto:mike@mtcc.com" target="_blank">mike@mtcc.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
On 6/24/22 12:38 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:<br style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On Jun 24, 2022, at 12:33 , Michael Thomas <<a href="mailto:mike@mtcc.com" target="_blank">mike@mtcc.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/24/22 9:09 AM, Chris Wright wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The term "5G" among technical circles started vague, became better defined over the course of several years, and is becoming vague again. This nuance was never well understood
in the public eye, nor by mass publications like CNN. This is a battle for 12GHz, not 5G.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">But is what Starlink saying true or not?<br>
<br>
It would be a pity to not have an alternative to incumbent telephants.<br>
<br>
Mike<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">It’s not entirely clear, without knowing the technical details of the Starlink modulation scheme whether or not they could successfully share the 12Ghz spectrum.<br>
<br>
I have no reason to disbelieve their claims.<br>
<br>
Frankly, I really don’t think that Dish’s idea of providing 5G mobile service from satellites is a particularly good or beneficial one and granting them 12Ghz spectrum for this purpose is probably not really in the public interest.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I thought they were land based? What I read is that being land based means that they can transmit at much higher power.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I wasn’t aware that Dish had terrestrial facilities. I had forgotten their absorption into AT&T.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">So I retract my comments in that regard… They are a traditional telephant and I think that terrestrial 5G on 12Ghz is even less useful.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px">
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">OTOH, I think Starlink is most definitely an interesting product that does provide a clear path to reasonable alternatives to the incumbent telephants.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Especially when you factor in mobility when they get there. No more roaming fees, all over the world.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Yep… Probably one of the reasons DishT&T is trying to fight so hard to cause them grief.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Owen<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>