<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Happy customers are also good for business. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>K<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> NANOG <nanog-bounces+kord=firstnationscable.com@nanog.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Hammett<br><b>Sent:</b> June 6, 2022 4:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> Brandon Butterworth <brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk><br><b>Cc:</b> nanog@nanog.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>"I must have read different posts."<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>More likely, a lack of understanding. There's a difference between, "No one should have this" and "the government shouldn't be paying for people to have this at this time." <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>"fortunate few who happen to be in the<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>good locations"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Most people live in locations where such a service could be reasonably delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>"A larger market is good for business, no?"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>It is, but also good for business is not wasting money.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>"Those have been just about managing to keep up to varying<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>degrees."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Keep up with what? Want or need?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br><br>-----<br>Mike Hammett<br>Intelligent Computing Solutions<br><a href="http://www.ics-il.com">http://www.ics-il.com</a><br><br>Midwest-IX<br><a href="http://www.midwest-ix.com">http://www.midwest-ix.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:black' align=center></span></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>"Brandon Butterworth" <<a href="mailto:brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk">brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk</a>><br><b>To: </b>"Mike Hammett" <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net">nanog@ics-il.net</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"Michael Thomas" <<a href="mailto:mike@mtcc.com">mike@mtcc.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, June 6, 2022 11:27:54 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers<br><br>On Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 09:44:20AM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:<br>> " I find it sad that so many would argue for never needing anything <br>> more than we have today." <br>> <br>> Few to none are doing that.<br><br>I must have read different posts.<br><br>> Upgrades are an organic part of the process. Some places they're<br>> hard, but most places they're comparatively easy. Let's stop<br>> putting the cart before the horse just to feel good about<br>> ourselves. That's too expensive. <br> <br>I'm not clear what you're suggesting should not be done, I agree with<br>you, upgrades are good, make them worthwhile ones.<br><br>> "totally fail to provide the same to everyone." <br>> <br>> Why should that be desirable? <br><br>I dunno, maybe it'd be nice if we could provide services to<br>everyone not just the fortunate few who happen to be in the<br>good locations? A larger market is good for business, no?<br>Maybe the less fortunate would do better with access to<br>the same resources others have.<br><br>> "If we had moved to fibre everywhere then perhaps" <br>> <br>> Negative. DOCSIS works well enough. Modern DSL implementations are good enough. Fixed wireless in many cases is good enough. Next gen satellite is good enough. <br><br>Not really. Those have been just about managing to keep up to varying<br>degrees.<br><br>DSL totally lost it as increasing speed reduced range, the UK ended up<br>deploying around 90k street cabinets (and it's a small country) to handle<br>the reduction from km's to 100m's and still failed on ancient cabling.<br>Rural got left behind as the distance between premises is greater than<br>the range of a cab. I've deployed FTTH over the last few years to<br>people who were still on 0.5 - 1MB/s DSL, this was common in rural areas<br>(lots are installing FTTH now)<br><br>Satellite has always been a dissapointment, LEO may do better but is<br>a huge investment so furthers my point that we do need to invest in<br>steps up.<br><br>FWA has always been a stop gap, largely limited by having to<br>use shared spectrum here. On my FWA network the advent of 60GHz<br>is great but for PTMP is too short range for our rural premises.<br><br>All are lacking in upload speed, we found that out fairly<br>quickly in the pandemic when there was a sudden change in<br>use patterns from what people thought would be fine forever.<br><br>> "If you build it they will come." <br>> <br>> So then build the hypothetical content that needs this? <br><br>Have been. We were looking at turning off UK terrestrial broadcast<br>in the late 2020s but fibre deployment was insufficient to provide<br>equivalent coverage. That's changing, fibre is going in all over so<br>we're looking at mid 2030s or so before we can start making<br>proper use of IP only distribution and the extra capabilities it<br>provides.<br><br>> Gigabit download level service is available to enough (at least in the<br>> US) that if such a downstream heavy service were on our doorstep, it<br>> would work for most Americans.<br><br>That's really good then, problem solved.<br><br>> Once people got tired of being proven that you need such forward-looking<br>> downstream capacity in the regulatory world<br><br>That's back to cart before horse, no? Did people not get the<br>Gigabit due to such pressure? Why would it not be good to do the<br>same for upload?<br><br>> they just moved to upstream and cried wolf there too. Yes, many services<br>> do have mildly inadequate upstream, but certainly not anything to change<br>> the regulatory environment over. <br><br>Or moved on to the next problem. I think they are setting the goal too<br>low if it's expected to accomodate a longer term change to home working. <br><br>If your home is where you work, rest, and play why not symmetrical?<br><br>brandon<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>