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Terrain has a lot to do with the service you can get. Twenty five
miles west of Denver are technically foothills but it is a lot of
mountainous terrain. No company wants to run any cable up there. <br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/24/22 09:48, Mitchell Tanenbaum
via NANOG wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
have two fixed wireless Internet connections here. One is
25/5, the other is 35/5. There is no cable, no fiber, no
cellular, not even DSL from the phone company. That is
reality in metro Denver, CO (actually, the foothills, 25
miles from the state Capitol building).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Regarding
Starlink, no, you can’t get it. I paid my deposit a year
and a half ago and I am still on the waiting list. Every
time that I get close to the date they promise, they change
the promise. Maybe I will get Starlink service some time in
the future, but, not any time soon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Oh,
yeah, and 25 meg down costs $75 a month. If you want VoIP,
that is another $20+.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">So
not only is it slow, it is expensive too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">So
yes, there still is a problem, right here in America. And
not just in the boonies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Mitch<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
NANOG
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog-bounces+mitch=mtanenbaum.us@nanog.org"><nanog-bounces+mitch=mtanenbaum.us@nanog.org></a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Matthew Huff<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Turnbow <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:b.turnbow@twt.it"><b.turnbow@twt.it></a>; David
Bass <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davidbass570@gmail.com"><davidbass570@gmail.com></a>; Sean Donelan
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sean@donelan.com"><sean@donelan.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: FCC proposes higher speed goals
(100/20 Mbps) for USF providers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
grew up in rural Texas where my mother still lives. She has
adequate speed internet, the biggest issue is reliability.
The whole town (there is only 1 provider) has an outage for
about an hour every week. Two weeks ago, there was no
internet for 3 days. Cellular service is 4G and not even
that reliable for data even on the best days.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
NANOG <<a
href="mailto:nanog-bounces+mhuff=ox.com@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nanog-bounces+mhuff=ox.com@nanog.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Turnbow via NANOG<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Bass <<a
href="mailto:davidbass570@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">davidbass570@gmail.com</a>>;
Sean Donelan <<a href="mailto:sean@donelan.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sean@donelan.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: FCC proposes higher speed goals
(100/20 Mbps) for USF providers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Here
in Italy there have been a lot of investments to get better
broadband.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Such
as government sponsored bundles for areas with no return on
investments, for schools etc with a lot of focus on reaching
gigabit speeds<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
results have been mainly positive even though there are
delays.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">On
the end user side in 2020 one of the largest ISPs started
offering 2.5Gbps service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Adds
all over and users started asking for it, even though they
don’t have a 2.5 nic or router, so now all of the major
providers are rolling it out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Illiad
one uped them a couple of months ago pushing a 5Gbps
service and now I get people asking me if we offer 5Gbps
fiber lines.. pure marketing…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
have a 1Gbps/100Mbps line and it is plenty enough for the
family rarely do we even get near the limits.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It’s
kind of like when I ask for an Italian espresso in the
states and get a cup full of coffee, no I just want a very
small italian style espresso..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
response is Why? you are paying for it take it all <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bigger
is better, even if you don’t need it, reigns supreme.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The real problem most users experience
isn’t that they have a gig, or even 100Mb of available
download bandwidth…it’s that they infrequently are able to
use that full bandwidth due to massive over subscription .
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The other issue is the minimal upload
speed. It’s fairly easy to consume the 10Mb that you’re
typically getting as a residential customer. Even
“business class” broadband service has a pretty poor
upload bandwidth limit. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are a pretty high usage family, and
100/10 has been adequate, but there’s been times when we
are pegged at the 10 Mb upload limit, and we start to see
issues. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’d say 25/5 is a minimum for a single
person. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Would 1 gig be nice…yeah as long as the
upload speed is dramatically increased as part of that.
We would rarely use it, but that would likely be
sufficient for a long time. I wouldn’t pay for the extra
at this point though. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 8:20 PM
Sean Donelan <<a href="mailto:sean@donelan.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sean@donelan.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Remember, this rulemaking is for 1.1 million locations
with the "worst" <br>
return on investment. The end of the tail of the long
tail. Rural and <br>
tribal locations which aren't profitable to provide
higher speed <br>
broadband.<br>
<br>
These locations have very low customer density, and
difficult to serve.<br>
<br>
After the Sandwich Isles Communications scandal,
gold-plated proposals <br>
will be viewed with skepticism. While a proposal may
have a lower total <br>
cost of ownership over decades, the business case is
the cheapest for <br>
the first 10 years of subsidies. [massive
over-simplification]<br>
<br>
Historically, these projects have lack of timely
completion (abandoned, <br>
incomplete), and bad (overly optimistic?) budgeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
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