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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">2) When you extend each floor to use the whole IPv4 address pool, however, you are essential talking about covering the entire surface of the earth. Then, there is no isolated buildings with isolated floors
to deploy your model anymore. There is only one spherical layer of physical earth surface for you to use as a realm, which is the current IPv4 deployment. How could you still have multiple full IPv4 address sets deployed, yet not seeing their identical twins,
triplets, etc.? Are you proposing multiple spherical layers of "realms", one on top of the other?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">It is the same as what I was trying to explain to Pascal. How to map the 2-level hierarchy of the draft (“Shaft”:”Realm”) to the real world?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I am sure that it is possible to do this if assume that the real world has 2 levels of hierarchy where the high level is “BGP AS”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">“BGP AS” is the name that everybody understands, No need for a new name “Shaft”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ed/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Abraham Y. Chen [mailto:aychen@avinta.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 2, 2022 12:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>; Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com>; Justin Streiner <streinerj@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> NANOG <nanog@nanog.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Hi, Pascal:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">1) " ... </span> for the next version. ... <span style="font-size:13.5pt"> ": I am not sure that I can wait for so long, because I am asking for the basics. The reason that I asked for an IP packet
header example of your proposal is to visualize what do you mean by the model of "realms and shafts in a multi-level building". The presentation in the draft sounds okay, because the floors are physically isolated from one another. And, even the building
is isolated from other buildings. This is pretty much how PBX numbering plan worked.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">2) When you extend each floor to use the whole IPv4 address pool, however, you are essential talking about covering the entire surface of the earth. Then, there is no isolated buildings with isolated floors
to deploy your model anymore. There is only one spherical layer of physical earth surface for you to use as a realm, which is the current IPv4 deployment. How could you still have multiple full IPv4 address sets deployed, yet not seeing their identical twins,
triplets, etc.? Are you proposing multiple spherical layers of "realms", one on top of the other?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">2) When I cited the DotConnectAfrica graphic logo as a visual model for the EzIP deployment over current IPv4, I was pretty specific that each RAN was tethered from the current Internet core via one IPv4
address. We were very careful about isolating the netblocks in terms of which one does what. In other words, even though the collection of RANs form a parallel cyberspace to the Internet, you may look at each RAN as an isolated balloon for others. So that
each RAN can use up the entire 240/4 netblock. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Please clarify your configuration.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Abe (2022-04-01 17:44) </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2022-04-01 10:55, Abraham Y. Chen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2022-04-01 10:00, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Makes sense, Abe, for the next version.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note that the intention is NOT any to ANY. A native IPv6 IoT device can only talk to another IPv6 device, where that other device may use a YATT address or any other IPv6 address.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But it cannot talk to a YADA node. That’s what I mean by baby steps for those who want to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Keep safe;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Abraham Y. Chen <a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">
<aychen@avinta.com></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> vendredi 1 avril 2022 15:49<br>
<b>To:</b> Vasilenko Eduard <a href="mailto:vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com"><vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com></a>; Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
<a href="mailto:pthubert@cisco.com"><pthubert@cisco.com></a>; Justin Streiner <a href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com">
<streinerj@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> NANOG <a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"><nanog@nanog.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Hi, Pascal:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">What I would appreciate is an IP packet header design/definition layout, word-by-word, ideally in bit-map style, of an explicit presentation of all IP addresses involved from one IoT in one realm to that in
the second realm. This will provide a clearer picture of how the real world implementation may look like.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Abe (2022-04-01 09:48)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2022-04-01 08:49, Vasilenko Eduard wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">As I understand: “IPv4 Realms” between “Shaft” should be capable to have a plain IPv4 header (or else why all of these).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Then Gateway in the Shaft should change headers (from IPv4 to IPv6).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Who should implement this gateway and why? He should be formally appointed to such an exercise, right?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Map this 2 level hierarchy to the real world – you may fail with this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ed/</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [<a href="mailto:pthubert@cisco.com">mailto:pthubert@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 1, 2022 3:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Vasilenko Eduard <a href="mailto:vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com"><vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com></a>; Justin Streiner
<a href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com"><streinerj@gmail.com></a>; Abraham Y. Chen <a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">
<aychen@avinta.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Eduard:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Did you just demonstrate that POPs cannot exist? Or that there cannot be a Default Free Zone?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with your real world issue that some things will have to be planned between stake holders, and that it will not be easy.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But you know what the French say about “impossible”.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Or to paraphrase Sir Arthur, now that we have eliminated all the impossible transition scenarios, whatever remains…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There will be YADA prefixes just like there are root DNS. To be managed by different players as you point out. And all routable within the same shaft.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Keep safe;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Vasilenko Eduard <<a href="mailto:vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com">vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> vendredi 1 avril 2022 14:32<br>
<b>To:</b> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <<a href="mailto:pthubert@cisco.com">pthubert@cisco.com</a>>; Justin Streiner <<a href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com">streinerj@gmail.com</a>>; Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">aychen@avinta.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Pascal,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">In general, your idea to create a hierarchy is good.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">In practice, it would fail because you have created a virtual hierarchy that does not map to any administrative border. Who should implement gateways for the “Shaft”? Why?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If you would appoint Carrier as the Shaft responsible then it is not enough bits for Shaft.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If you would appoint Governments as the Shaft responsible then would be a so big scandal that you would regret the proposal.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hence, I do not see proper mapping for the hierarchy to make YADA successful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Eduard</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> NANOG [<a href="mailto:nanog-bounces+vasilenko.eduard=huawei.com@nanog.org">mailto:nanog-bounces+vasilenko.eduard=huawei.com@nanog.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pascal Thubert (pthubert) via NANOG<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 1, 2022 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Justin Streiner <<a href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com">streinerj@gmail.com</a>>; Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">aychen@avinta.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For the sake of it, Justin, I just published <a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-v6ops-yada-yatt/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-v6ops-yada-yatt/</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The first section of the draft (YADA) extends IPv4 range in an IPv4-only world. For some people that might be enough and I’m totally fine with that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Keep safe;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog-bounces+pthubert=cisco.com@nanog.org">nanog-bounces+pthubert=cisco.com@nanog.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Justin Streiner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> dimanche 27 mars 2022 18:12<br>
<b>To:</b> Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">aychen@avinta.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Abe:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To your first point about denying that anyone is being stopped from working on IPv4, I'm referring to users being able to communicate via IPv4. I have seen no evidence of that.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm not familiar with the process of submitting ideas to IETF, so I'll leave that for others who are more knowledgeable on that to speak up if they're so inclined.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">jms<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 6:43 PM Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">aychen@avinta.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">1) "... no one is stopping anyone from working on IPv4 ... ": After all these discussions, are you still denying this basic issue? For example, there has not been any straightforward way to introduce
IPv4 enhancement ideas to IETF since at least 2015. If you know the way, please make it public. I am sure that many are eager to learn about it. Thanks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.
<a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link" target="_blank">
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