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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Hi, Pascal:<br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">1) " ... <span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> for the next version. ... </span>
": I am not sure that I can wait for so long, because I am
asking for the basics. The reason that I asked for an IP packet
header example of your proposal is to visualize what do you mean
by the model of "realms and shafts in a multi-level building".
The presentation in the draft sounds okay, because the floors
are physically isolated from one another. And, even the building
is isolated from other buildings. This is pretty much how PBX
numbering plan worked. <br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">2) When you extend
each floor to use the whole IPv4 address pool, however, you are
essential talking about covering the entire surface of the
earth. Then, there is no isolated buildings with isolated floors
to deploy your model anymore. There is only one spherical layer
of physical earth surface for you to use as a realm, which is
the current IPv4 deployment. How could you still have multiple
full IPv4 address sets deployed, yet not seeing their identical
twins, triplets, etc.? Are you proposing multiple spherical
layers of "realms", one on top of the other?<br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">2) When I cited the
DotConnectAfrica graphic logo as a visual model for the EzIP
deployment over current IPv4, I was pretty specific that each
RAN was tethered from the current Internet core via one IPv4
address. We were very careful about isolating the netblocks in
terms of which one does what. In other words, even though the
collection of RANs form a parallel cyberspace to the Internet,
you may look at each RAN as an isolated balloon for others. So
that each RAN can </font><font size="4"><font size="4">use up
the entire 240/4 netblock. <br>
</font></font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Please clarify your
configuration.</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Thanks,</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Abe (2022-04-01 17:44)
<br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-04-01 10:55, Abraham Y. Chen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:fb40ac31-e7ba-71ae-50b3-4a0ce2b00eb8@avinta.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-04-01 10:00, Pascal Thubert
(pthubert) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CO1PR11MB48817409DCCDD868AC23A779D8E09@CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Makes sense, </span></font><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Abe,
for the next version.</span></font><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Note that the intention is NOT
any to ANY. A native IPv6 IoT device can only talk to
another IPv6 device, where that other device may use a
YATT address or any other IPv6 address.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">But it cannot talk to a YADA
node. That’s what I mean by baby steps for those who
want to.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Keep safe;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Pascal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Abraham Y. Chen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><aychen@avinta.com></a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
vendredi 1 avril 2022 15:49<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Vasilenko Eduard <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com></a>;
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:pthubert@cisco.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><pthubert@cisco.com></a>;
Justin Streiner <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><streinerj@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> NANOG
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><nanog@nanog.org></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not
supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Hi, Pascal:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">What I would appreciate is
an IP packet header design/definition layout,
word-by-word, ideally in bit-map style, of an
explicit presentation of all IP addresses involved
from one IoT in one realm to that in the second
realm. This will provide a clearer picture of how
the real world implementation may look like.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Thanks,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Abe (2022-04-01 09:48)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">On 2022-04-01 08:49,
Vasilenko Eduard wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">As I
understand: “IPv4 Realms” between “Shaft” should be
capable to have a plain IPv4 header (or else why all
of these).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Then Gateway
in the Shaft should change headers (from IPv4 to
IPv6).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Who should
implement this gateway and why? He should be
formally appointed to such an exercise, right?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Map this 2
level hierarchy to the real world – you may fail
with this.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Ed/</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [<a
href="mailto:pthubert@cisco.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:pthubert@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, April 1, 2022 3:41 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Vasilenko Eduard <a
href="mailto:vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com></a>; Justin
Streiner <a href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<streinerj@gmail.com></a>; Abraham Y. Chen <a
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><aychen@avinta.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
RE: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not
supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello Eduard:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Did you just demonstrate
that POPs cannot exist? Or that there cannot be a
Default Free Zone?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">I agree with your real
world issue that some things will have to be planned
between stake holders, and that it will not be easy.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">But you know what the
French say about “impossible”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Or to paraphrase Sir
Arthur, now that we have eliminated all the
impossible transition scenarios, whatever remains…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">There will be YADA prefixes
just like there are root DNS. To be managed by
different players as you point out. And all routable
within the same shaft.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Keep safe;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Pascal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
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<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Vasilenko Eduard <<a
href="mailto:vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
vendredi 1 avril 2022 14:32<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <<a
href="mailto:pthubert@cisco.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">pthubert@cisco.com</a>>;
Justin Streiner <<a
href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">streinerj@gmail.com</a>>;
Abraham Y. Chen <<a
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aychen@avinta.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
RE: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not
supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Pascal,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">In general,
your idea to create a hierarchy is good.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">In
practice, it would fail because you have created a
virtual hierarchy that does not map to any
administrative border. Who should implement
gateways for the “Shaft”? Why?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">If you
would appoint Carrier as the Shaft responsible
then it is not enough bits for Shaft.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">If you
would appoint Governments as the Shaft responsible
then would be a so big scandal that you would
regret the proposal.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hence, I do
not see proper mapping for the hierarchy to make
YADA successful.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eduard</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
NANOG [<a
href="mailto:nanog-bounces+vasilenko.eduard=huawei.com@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nanog-bounces+vasilenko.eduard=huawei.com@nanog.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Pascal
Thubert (pthubert) via NANOG<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, April 1, 2022 2:26 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Justin Streiner <<a
href="mailto:streinerj@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">streinerj@gmail.com</a>>;
Abraham Y. Chen <<a
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aychen@avinta.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
RE: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not
supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">For the sake of it,
Justin, I just published <a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-v6ops-yada-yatt/"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-v6ops-yada-yatt/</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">The first section of the
draft (YADA) extends IPv4 range in an IPv4-only
world. For some people that might be enough and
I’m totally fine with that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Keep safe;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Pascal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
NANOG <<a
href="mailto:nanog-bounces+pthubert=cisco.com@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nanog-bounces+pthubert=cisco.com@nanog.org</a>>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Justin
Streiner<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
dimanche 27 mars 2022 18:12<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Abraham Y. Chen <<a
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aychen@avinta.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still
not supported re: 202203261833.AYC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Abe:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">To your first point
about denying that anyone is being stopped
from working on IPv4, I'm referring to users
being able to communicate via IPv4. I have
seen no evidence of that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">I'm not familiar
with the process of submitting ideas to
IETF, so I'll leave that for others who are
more knowledgeable on that to speak up if
they're so inclined.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">jms<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">On Sat, Mar 26,
2022 at 6:43 PM Abraham Y. Chen <<a
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aychen@avinta.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">1) "... no
one is stopping anyone from working on
IPv4 ... ": After all these
discussions, are you still denying
this basic issue? For example, there
has not been any straightforward way
to introduce IPv4 enhancement ideas to
IETF since at least 2015. If you know
the way, please make it public. I am
sure that many are eager to learn
about it. Thanks.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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