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<p><font size="4">Hi, Mark:</font></p>
<p><font size="4">1) " ... known defective products ... ":
Could you please define what do you mean? And, what "products"
do you have in mind? Otherwise, this sounds like a scare tactic
without a foundation.</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Abe (2022-03-17 11:32)</font><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">------------------------------
NANOG Digest, Vol 170, Issue 19
Message: 35
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 09:48:04 +1100
From: Mark Andrews <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marka@isc.org"><marka@isc.org></a>
To: Owen DeLong <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:owen@delong.com"><owen@delong.com></a>
Cc: Sylvain Baya <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com"><abscoco@gmail.com></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com">bzs@theworld.com</a>, Niels Bakker
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:niels=nanog@bakker.net"><niels=nanog@bakker.net></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a>
Subject: Re: Not Making Use of 240/4 NetBlock
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:1C6B1AD8-399E-4B3C-B3AD-A5C846F62925@isc.org"><1C6B1AD8-399E-4B3C-B3AD-A5C846F62925@isc.org></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
It?s a business problem for the RIR?s. Selling / leasing known defective products is against lots of consumer law.
<div class="moz-txt-sig">--
Mark Andrews
</div></pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On 17 Mar 2022, at 03:43, Owen DeLong <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:owen@delong.com"><owen@delong.com></a> wrote:
?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Mar 15, 2022, at 19:23 , Mark Andrews <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marka@isc.org"><marka@isc.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On 16 Mar 2022, at 02:54, Owen DeLong via NANOG <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"><nanog@nanog.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Having spent nearly 15 years on the ARIN Advisory Council, I think I?m able
to claim some detailed knowledge on the subject.
In general, the RIRs themselves maintain neutrality about such things, looking to their
respective communities for input on what to do. However, so long as the IETF and
has not designated the space Unicast Address Space to be delegated to the
RIRs for allocation/assignment, IANA will not delegate it to the RIRs and the RIRs
won?t, therefore, delegate it to users.
If you really want to see this happen (and I still argue that the amount of effort already wasted
discussing this idea vastly exceeds what would be needed towards IPv6 to get beyond
caring about it), then the first step must be to convince the IETF to designate the
space IPv4 Unicast and instruct the IANA to begin issuing those /8s to the RIRs.
Once that happens, the rest of the allocation process is basically automatic. From a policy
perspective at the RIR level, it will be no different than say 4/8 or 1/8.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Actually it would be fundamentally different to 4/8 or 1/8. You are looking at firmware upgrades
rather than dealing with squatters and out-of-date ACLs both of which are self-inflicted by one
of the parties. Routers and end devices that don?t know how to hand 240/4 are no self inflicted
injuries. Issuing 4/8 or 1/8 worked for parties that had been following the rules. With 240/4
there where no rules to follow which results in RIR?s leasing known defective addresses.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I was speaking from an RIR allocation perspective, NOT talking about the technological hurdles
to implementation.
I was specifically responding to someone?s question about how the RIRs would be impacted by
this if it were to come to pass.
I addressed your concern in the following paragraph as an aside, however.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Now, convincing vendors to update their firmware, software, etc. is another matter
and entirely outside of the control of the RIRs. Merchant compliance with IETF standards
is generally considered useful, but it is entirely voluntary and even in the best of
circumstances doesn?t every happen instantaneously and almost always involves
some stumbles along the way.
Owen
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Mar 15, 2022, at 02:54 , Sylvain Baya <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com"><abscoco@gmail.com></a> wrote:
Dear NANOG-ers,
Hope this email finds you in good health!
Please see my comments below, inline...
Le mardi 15 mars 2022, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com"><bzs@theworld.com></a> a ?crit :
Hi Barry,
Thanks for your email, brother!
But the RIRs are the ones fielding requests for IPv4 space, and have
some notion of how policy implementation might work in practice, so
should have a lot of useful input.
...of course, it appears that RIRs have the opportunity
to add their useful inputs, as Impact Analysis Report
(IAR); during the Policy Development Process (PDP)
initiated by the <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>appropriate<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> [1] Internet community.
They explain it themselves here [2].
__
[1]: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7020"><https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7020></a>
[2]: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/q-and-a/"><https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/q-and-a/></a>
Shalom,
--sb.
On March 14, 2022 at 00:45 <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:niels=nanog@bakker.net">niels=nanog@bakker.net</a> (Niels Bakker) wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com">bzs@theworld.com</a> (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com">bzs@theworld.com</a>) [Mon 14 Mar 2022, 00:31 CET]:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Personally I'd rather hear from the RIRs regarding the value or not
of making more IPv4 space such as 240/4 available. They're on the
front lines of this.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">You've got your policy development process diagram upside down. The
community decides what the RIRs implement. They're not in touch with
merchant silicon manufacturers.
-- Niels.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com">bzs@TheWorld.com</a> | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.TheWorld.com">http://www.TheWorld.com</a>
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>oo<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b>
--
Best Regards !
__
baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure"><https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure></a>
Subscribe to Mailing List: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/"><https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/></a>
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#?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!?
?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">--
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:marka@isc.org">marka@isc.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">------------------------------</pre>
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