<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">So to clarify/muddy the situation further... Time zones do not fall purely on the 15 degree lines on a globe. As such, the location of the sun overhead is locality specific within a timezone.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Don’t let the enemy of done win here. ;)</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 15, 2022, at 2:44 PM, Brian R <<a href="mailto:briansupport@hotmail.com" class="">briansupport@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Thanks for finding the clarification on this Ray.<br class=""><br class="">I'm with the OP Jay that this will cause long term problems. The 15 degrees is not mentioned in the document just the change from "Standard Time" to "Daylight Time" permanently (they probably don't even understand it is in 15 degree increments). This will cause problems in systems across many sectors. The entire world works on UTC + or - on a 15 degree scale. Except now the US which will be 15 degree scale -15 degrees. I doubt Canada, Central, or South Americas are going to follow this so the United States will always be 15 degrees off of what is considered "Standard Time" by the world.</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">The better solution would be to remove DST all together and tell everyone in the US to start work at 07:00 and get off work at 16:00 every day.</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Brian<br class=""></div><div id="appendonsend" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""></div><hr tabindex="-1" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block; width: 775.171875px;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog-bounces+briansupport=hotmail.com@nanog.org" class="">nanog-bounces+briansupport=hotmail.com@nanog.org</a>> on behalf of Ray Van Dolson via NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" class="">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, March 15, 2022 12:26 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mel Beckman <<a href="mailto:mel@beckman.org" class="">mel@beckman.org</a>>; Jay R. Ashworth <<a href="mailto:jra@baylink.com" class="">jra@baylink.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" class="">nanog@nanog.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>list <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" class="">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: "Permanent" DST</font><div class=""> </div></div><div class="BodyFragment" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><div class="PlainText">I think this is essentially the bill:<br class=""><br class=""><a href="https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/69/text" class="">https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/69/text</a><br class=""><br class="">Not finding anything about 15 degrees.<br class=""><br class="">Ray<br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: NANOG <<a href="mailto:nanog-bounces+rvandolson=esri.com@nanog.org" class="">nanog-bounces+rvandolson=esri.com@nanog.org</a>> On Behalf Of Mel Beckman<br class="">Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 12:19 PM<br class="">To: Jay R. Ashworth <<a href="mailto:jra@baylink.com" class="">jra@baylink.com</a>><br class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" class="">nanog@nanog.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>list <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" class="">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br class="">Subject: Re: "Permanent" DST<br class=""><br class="">I don’t follow why cancelling DST has the effect of moving the US fifteen degrees to the east. Also, your subject line reads “permanent DST”, but from your language the bill will be permanent standard time.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">I haven’t read the bill, but I’m hoping you can explain your position more clearly.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">-mel via cell<br class=""><br class="">> On Mar 15, 2022, at 3:13 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <<a href="mailto:jra@baylink.com" class="">jra@baylink.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> In a unanimous vote today, the US Senate approved a bill which would<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> 1) Cancel DST permanently, and<br class="">> 2) Move every square inch of US territory 15 degrees to the east.<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> My opinion of this ought to be obvious from my rhetoric. Hopefully,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> it will fail, because it's likely to be the end of rational time<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> worldwide, and even if you do log in UTC, it will still make your life difficult.<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> I'm poleaxed; I can't even decide which grounds to scream about this on...<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Hopefully, the House or the White House will be more coherent in their<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> decision on this engineering construct.<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Cheers,<br class="">> -- jra<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> --<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Jay R. Ashworth Baylink <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jra@baylink.com" class="">jra@baylink.com</a><br class="">> Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100<br class="">> Ashworth & Associates <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bcp38.info__;!!CKZwjTOV!jlq104a9OT4LH-Gk4LCElbaWSsLXzHYDHHpxEqU0OZW56655xb8Df0mA4p1wvA$" class="">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bcp38.info__;!!CKZwjTOV!jlq104a9OT4LH-Gk4LCElbaWSsLXzHYDHHpxEqU0OZW56655xb8Df0mA4p1wvA$</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[bcp38[.]info] 2000 Land Rover DII<br class="">> St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274</div></span></font></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>