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<p>Agreed with this... if anything, all of the repeated abuse causing poor performance for neighbors could eventually result in termination of service. I'm sure CenturyLink would love to sell OP a DIA that they can use to run Tor and P2P to their heart's content.<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> NANOG <nanog-bounces+tim=mid.net@nanog.org> on behalf of Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 6, 2021 1:19:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Neel Chauhan; nanog@nanog.org list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)</font>
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<div>Respectfully, if you start broaching topics like suing your residential ISP because a "best effort" no SLA last mile GPON service doesn't meet the same performance as a 1GbE active-E symmetric 1310/LR hand off for a server in a datacenter, the most likely
thing you're going to get is dropped by the ISP entirely. <br>
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<div>I know that's what I would recommend if I were your ISP and you threatened lawsuits at my customer service representatives. "Sorry, but as of $DATE_30_DAYS_IN_FUTURE we will no longer be able to meet your needs and will discontinue service and billing
for $YOUR_ACCOUNT_NUMBER". <br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 2:59 PM Neel Chauhan <<a href="mailto:neel@neelc.org">neel@neelc.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
My OPNsense box has a really large NAT table, more than there are IPv4 <br>
ports, presumably due to the way FreeBSD's pf works. CenturyLink's <br>
routers are worse in this regard since NAT tables are small.<br>
<br>
Even if I were to run Tor on my CenturyLink connection, my neighbors are <br>
affected as well. When I was running Tor at "full speed" with these <br>
spikes, neighbors had truck rolls.<br>
<br>
I have ordered Verizon "LTE Home" as a temporary "workaround", namely to <br>
move my Wi-Fi traffic to it while I restart Tor. The reason for this is <br>
to force neighbors to put in repair tickets to force a GPON capacity <br>
increase.<br>
<br>
It's not nice to my neighbors, but I don't **realy** have another option <br>
(even running Tor I don't want to make it too unbearablel for <br>
neighbors). Maybe the other options are to (a) pay $329/mo for Comcast <br>
Gigabit Pro and get stuck in a 2-year contract and a steep install fee <br>
or (b) litigate that I could lose since I'm not a lawyer and don't have <br>
a J.D. from Harvard Law School specializing in telecom law, both which <br>
are impractical and expensive.<br>
<br>
I was about to sue CenturyLink in small claims, but instead decided to <br>
get Verizon LTE Home for 2 months while CenturyLink "fixes" their fiber <br>
network while restarting Tor there. Have the neighbors put in service <br>
requests to force CL to fix their network, but don't put in a request <br>
myself so the "solution" won't be to blame me.<br>
<br>
While I may have to worry about an ETF with LTE Home, it's cheaper than <br>
Gigabit Pro, and of $300 for two months including ETF is still cheaper <br>
than $329/mo for two years.<br>
<br>
It's a gamble but may pay off.<br>
<br>
-Neel<br>
<br>
On 2021-11-03 07:00, TJ Trout wrote:<br>
> I second this, most best effort Broadband cpe equipment will choke<br>
> with lots of concurrent connections<br>
> <br>
> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, 8:25 PM P C <<a href="mailto:pc50000@gmail.com" target="_blank">pc50000@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> If this is connection count related only, It is most likely an issue<br>
>> with the CPE (router), NAT table, or similar.<br>
>> <br>
>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 8:21 AM Neel Chauhan <<a href="mailto:neel@neelc.org" target="_blank">neel@neelc.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>>> I tried that back in September, it didn't work. It doesn't happen<br>
>>> on my<br>
>>> hop but the one after that. Even a second GPON connection shows<br>
>>> the<br>
>>> issues if one is running the offending traffic.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> The issue occurs even if I'm using 50 Mbps out of my 940.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> It may be bufferbloat on CL's side but they keep denying the<br>
>>> issue.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I guess I'll have to break the bank and get Comcast Gigabit Pro.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> CenturyLink should just get bought out by another telco, like how<br>
>>> Cablevision got bought by Altice.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> -Neel<br>
>>> <br>
>>> On 2021-11-01 20:52, Ryan Hamel wrote:<br>
>>>> Neel,<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Sounds like buffer bloat.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Run a speed test, whatever is your maximum for your download and<br>
>>> upload<br>
>>>> take<br>
>>>> 10% away from it, and setup traffic shaping in OPNsense<br>
>>>> (<a href="https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html</a>) with those<br>
>>> values. If<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> issue goes away, then you're exceeding the buffer of<br>
>>> CenturyLink's<br>
>>>> device<br>
>>>> with the bursts of traffic.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Ryan<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>> From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+ryan=<a href="mailto:rkhtech.org@nanog.org" target="_blank">rkhtech.org@nanog.org</a>> On Behalf<br>
>>> Of<br>
>>>> Neel<br>
>>>> Chauhan<br>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 6:44 PM<br>
>>>> To: <a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
>>>> Subject: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Hi NANOG Mailing List,<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> I don't know if any of you work at CenturyLink/Lumen, very less<br>
>>> on<br>
>>>> their<br>
>>>> Fiber network in Seattle, WA. However, here's my story.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> If I attempt to run certain applications that use 1000, or 10000<br>
>>> TCP<br>
>>>> connections, I get latency spikes. It is based on how many<br>
>>> connections,<br>
>>>> but<br>
>>>> also how much bandwidth is used. This means certain things like<br>
>>> Tor<br>
>>>> relays<br>
>>>> are off limits to me (which I wish to run).<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> On an idle connection, the PingPlotter outputs look like this:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png</a><br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> If I attempt to run BitTorrent with 1000 connections in Deluge,<br>
>>>> PingPlotter<br>
>>>> looks like this:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png</a><br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Getting support, or even executive contacts to admit the issue<br>
>>> hasn't<br>
>>>> worked. They all love to blame my equipment or applications,<br>
>>> when CL<br>
>>>> routers<br>
>>>> also show the issue when I run the same things whereas my same<br>
>>> exact<br>
>>>> OPNsense box on Google Fiber Webpass running Tor at another<br>
>>> address had<br>
>>>> no<br>
>>>> issues whatsoever, and I can ping other Tor relays on<br>
>>> CenturyLink AS209<br>
>>>> just<br>
>>>> fine (from a VPS).<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> The most competent person I dealt with was actually one tech. He<br>
>>> told<br>
>>>> me<br>
>>>> there was "capacity issues" in our neighborhood, and that's the<br>
>>> reason<br>
>>>> for<br>
>>>> the issues. However, nothing was done about it afterwards, I'm<br>
>>> guessing<br>
>>>> since I turned off my Tor relay after the visit to avoid<br>
>>> complaints<br>
>>>> from<br>
>>>> family members.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> On an AT&T forum, people have said GPON gives latency<br>
>>> spikes/packet<br>
>>>> loss on<br>
>>>> congestion:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
> <a href="https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio</a><br>
>>>> n<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> The capacity managers in Seattle are literally dragging their<br>
>>> feet:<br>
>>>> it's<br>
>>>> 100x worse than AT&T's 802.1X. I know AT&T and CenturyLink don't<br>
>>> <br>
>>>> compete,<br>
>>>> but if I had to choose between AT&T Fiber and CenturyLink, I'll<br>
>>> take<br>
>>>> AT&T in<br>
>>>> a heartbeat, no ifs, no buts, even if I have to use AT&T's<br>
>>> crappy<br>
>>>> router<br>
>>>> instead of my OPNsense box.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Going back, do any of you who work at CenturyLink/Lumen can get<br>
>>> me to<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> right people, hopefully the capacity managers in Seattle?<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> I could go with Comcast, but it's either (a) 35 Mbps uploads or<br>
>>> (b)<br>
>>>> $329/mo<br>
>>>> for "Gigabit Pro" with a 2-year contract and a steep install<br>
>>> fee. I am<br>
>>>> seriously considering Gigabit Pro even if it breaks the bank,<br>
>>> but hope<br>
>>>> I<br>
>>>> won't have to go there.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> I don't need 2 Gbps and would rather pay $65 than $329. 300-500<br>
>>> Mbps<br>
>>>> uploads<br>
>>>> when I need it is the sweet spot for me (even without Tor) which<br>
>>> CL<br>
>>>> GPON<br>
>>>> should easily handle without a sweat. I also don't exactly<br>
>>>> **trust** Comcast, they're a horrible company in many metrics,<br>
>>> but in<br>
>>>> some<br>
>>>> ways Comcast is more competent than CenturyLink.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Best,<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Neel Chauhan<br>
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