<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 21, 2021, at 08:55 , Mel Beckman <<a href="mailto:mel@beckman.org" class="">mel@beckman.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="">On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:19 AM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">No,
but you are ignoring the point of my message…</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">The
TCP/IP internet existed _BEFORE_ the flag day you mentioned. The flag day was the end of NCP, not the beginning of TCP/IP. IIRC, at the time,</span></div>
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<div class="">Owen,</div>
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<div class="">But we’re not talking about the birth of TCP/IP. We’re talking about the birth of the capital-I Internet, which by definition runs exclusively on TCP/IP, and that didn’t start until Jan 1, 1983. Although there was <i class="">experimentation
</i>using IP during 1982, that was still ARPANET. It was the <i class="">guaranteed exclusive </i>availability of IP that made 1983 the Internet’s birth date. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>IMHO, that’s an absurd definition. It was still ARPANET after January 1, 1983 too. Prior to 1982, it was ARPANET on NCP. During 1982, it was ARPANET running on NCP+TCP/IP, much like the Internet runs dual stack today on IPv4 and IPv6.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>In 1983, NCP was removed from most of the backbone, as I hope will happen with IPv4 in the next few years.</div><div><br class=""></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">And no, it’s not analogous to the eventual IPv6 transition, because both IPv5 and IPv4 are Capital-I Internet standard protocols.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>You’re picking arbitrary definitions of Capital-I Internet standards. NCP was every bit as standardized as TCP/IP in 1982.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Both were documented in the same IEN series of documents.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>IEN later (well after TCP/IP) evoked to become RFC.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Don’t believe me? Look at the hosts.txt file from IPv4 days which still referenced IEN116.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div></body></html>