<div dir="ltr"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Maybe some will, but they'd be better off selling them before the RIRs decide to expand their scope and start mass reclaiming for profit. <br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm sorry, what? </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 9:36 PM Laszlo Hanyecz <<a href="mailto:laszlo@heliacal.net">laszlo@heliacal.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div>On 2021-08-28 00:58, Tom Beecher wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Fundamentally I think everyone should care about
this situation. As I read it, it breaks down as :
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation are engaged in a dispute
over number assignment policies.</div>
<div>- AFRINIC invokes the clause that they are reclaiming the
space in question. </div>
<div>- Cloud Innovation files for garnishment, stating that
AFRINIG is 'taking' IP addresses worth millions of dollars,
therefore it is entitled to damages.<br>
</div>
<div>- The courts grant the garnishment, although such
garnishment is at Cloud Innovation's risk. ( Meaning if they
are challenged and lose, they are on the hook for damages for
taking the action.)</div>
<div>- However, in the process, since Cloud Innovation has
claimed enough damages to freeze all of AFRINIC's accounts,
they now have no money accessible to protect their legal
rights on the IP address, or defend themselves against the
damaged seizure.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As Mr. Curran put forth a week ago, 'property rights' of IP
allocations are an unsettled area. What happens if this holds
up that the court there rules that you 'own' the IPs assigned
to you from an RIR until you give them back? That sure creates
a mess with any RIR views that allocations as simply entries
in a database. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
This thing about entries in a database seems to be used when it's
convenient to downplay the market value and operational importance
of IP addresses. Even the people leading the crusade against Cloud
Innovation in this thread are claiming that it's about millions of
addresses for dramatic effect. This kind of dispute is going to
happen more as the value of addresses goes up and the RIRs realize
what a gold mine they have by shaking down spammers and other
unpopular resource holders. I imagine some of the operators on this
list have resources they could return if they wanted to. Maybe some
will, but they'd be better off selling them before the RIRs decide
to expand their scope and start mass reclaiming for profit.
Hopefully RPKI, AS0, etc. won't be abused to reclaim resources just
because they're valuable.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> How long would it take before some clown in a boardroom
decides that want to latch onto that ruling and do something
stupid to 'maximize shareholder value' and there's an
expensive legal brawl over that? How long before people start
popping up and laying claim as the 'rightful owner' of
addresses from the origin days? Do we really want to see RIRs
and our companies dealing with BS lawsuits for things like
this? It only has to work once... </div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 11:37
AM Bill Woodcock <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net" target="_blank">woody@pch.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">As many of you are aware,
AfriNIC is under legal attack by Heng Lu / “Cloud Innovation.”<br>
<br>
John Curran just posted an excellent summary of the current
state of affairs here:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://teamarin.net/2021/08/27/afrinic-and-the-stability-of-the-internet-number-registry-system/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://teamarin.net/2021/08/27/afrinic-and-the-stability-of-the-internet-number-registry-system/</a><br>
<br>
If, like me, you feel like chipping in a little bit of money
to help AfriNIC make payroll despite Heng having gotten their
bank accounts frozen, some of the African ISP associations
have put together a fund, which you can donate to here:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001</a><br>
<br>
It’s an unfortunate situation, but the African Internet
community has really pulled together to defend themselves, and
they’ve got a lot less resources than most of us do.<br>
<br>
-Bill<br>
</blockquote>
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