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I think the 10:1 ratio might have been great 5 years ago, when usage was more asymmetric. The last 5 yrs. have definitely changed the profile of a typical home user. A 4M upload pipe, will hit bottlenecks with all the collaboration that is happening remotely.</div>
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Typical residential usage:</div>
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Zoom group call: 2M upload</div>
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OneDrive + Dropbox + Box + Other file sync services: ~ 1 - 5M</div>
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Nest / Ring / Other constantly streaming camera = ~1M</div>
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If I'm working on a media file that's syncing real-time + on a zoom call, artifacts are impossible to avoid. Add to that 2+ users working remotely from the same home.</div>
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@Mike, Telehealth relies on a combination of HD video + accessories that stream AV + telemetry in real-time. In addition to bumping up the 4M upload, I agree with all the other comments on here about setting some parameters around latency and packet loss.</div>
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I think if anything, the proliferation of smart devices, requirements for higher reliability and the continuity of WFH practices are going to put additional demands on upload, not lower.</div>
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Abhi</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> NANOG <nanog-bounces+abhi=devireddy.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Blake Hudson <blake@ispn.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 28, 2021 9:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections</font>
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<div>What is the rationale for changing it? Have the applications changed? Has our use of them changed?<br>
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Yes, somewhat. There's been, and will continue to be, more cord cutting of non-IP broadcast video services towards unicast IP streaming services. However, video codecs have gotten more efficient so that what used to require an 8Mbps stream now fits in a 4Mbps
package. I see more folks video conferencing (whether that be for personal or business use), which relies more heavily on upload than most applications. Folks with crummy WiFi or slower upload speeds have become the have-nots in this remote work era. The goal
of subsidies is to lift the base/minimum so that there are fewer have-nots. Set the qualifier too low and you'll end up providing assistance where it doesn't accomplish this goal. Raise the qualifier too high too soon and you run the risk of excluding assistance
where it could help.<br>
<br>
I'm content with 10Mbps down per person in the household (a quick rule of thumb I've been using for a few years). If a common household has 4 people, 40Mbps download seems sufficient for today's typical usage (this assumes a 10:1 download:upload ratio, so ~4Mbps
up). Latency needs to be quick enough for real-time voice or video calls to work smoothly. If the makeup of our homes change or the applications we use within the home change, I'm all for adjusting these figures. This still leaves DSL, cable, fiber, and various
wireless technologies as options that would qualify for the definition of broadband. At some point, if one of these technologies cannot keep up with the pace of demand it will need to be excluded in favor of technologies that have done a better job of keeping
pace.<br>
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--B<br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/2021 8:07 AM, Chris Adams (IT) wrote:<br>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">I�d be interested to understand the rationale for not wanting to change the definition. Is it strictly the business/capital outlay expense?</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thanks,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chris Adams</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> NANOG <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog-bounces+chris.adams=ung.edu@nanog.org">
<nanog-bounces+chris.adams=ung.edu@nanog.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Canady<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 28, 2021 8:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections</p>
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<p>I second Mike.</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On 5/28/21 8:37 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">I don't think it needs to change.</span></p>
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<br>
-----<br>
Mike Hammett<br>
Intelligent Computing Solutions<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ics-2Dil.com&d=DwMDaQ&c=FbBevciwIvGuzsJQdDnze9uCWRSXekJosRCbxNiCfPE&r=2xyWjaGAJiQBS60SNfJGVrkSN3JvZBCiAkWZBLNrNQA&m=hLl3tE5IUFeCnGVaq9aENU6Cb0VwUJSMovT2ACT74-I&s=S2l1XV98d5g-7uCPfcvNNU5WuML3uo1LVamsKRY-JHE&e=">http://www.ics-il.com</a><br>
<br>
Midwest-IX<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.midwest-2Dix.com&d=DwMDaQ&c=FbBevciwIvGuzsJQdDnze9uCWRSXekJosRCbxNiCfPE&r=2xyWjaGAJiQBS60SNfJGVrkSN3JvZBCiAkWZBLNrNQA&m=hLl3tE5IUFeCnGVaq9aENU6Cb0VwUJSMovT2ACT74-I&s=qGvndXaVQIOyFcKDLyED-Ufmklruq9Q3pArgVVFK1A8&e=">http://www.midwest-ix.com</a></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black">"Sean Donelan"
<a href="mailto:sean@donelan.com"><sean@donelan.com></a><br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, May 27, 2021 7:29:08 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>New minimum speed for US broadband connections<br>
<br>
<br>
What should be the new minimum speed for "broadband" in the U.S.?<br>
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