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Yes, the video doorbell and similar cameras are a great example of a
product that barely existed a few years ago and are now common place
(and one that is driving the need for change in the WiFi and
broadband space). I agree that a 5:1 (down:up) ratio is better than
a 10:1 (and that I do not recommend a 20:1 ratio for most folks).<br>
<br>
As someone that has a video doorbell (wired) and several wireless
cams, I can tell you that my experience is that they worked fine on
50Mbps down/10Mbps up while two folks did WFH. Would my experience
have been better with 25Mbps upload? Possibly. Would it have
improved with 100Mbps instead of 25Mbps? Probably not. At another
location I did WFH on a 30M/3M connection with no adverse affects
(that would be minus the video doorbell, but with two WiFi cameras).
I'm sure there were bottlenecks, but either the applications dealt
with it intelligently or they shared the bandwidth well enough so
that everything remained usable.<br>
<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/2021 9:34 AM, Abhi Devireddy
wrote:<br>
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I think the 10:1 ratio might have been great 5 years ago, when
usage was more asymmetric. The last 5 yrs. have definitely
changed the profile of a typical home user. A 4M upload pipe,
will hit bottlenecks with all the collaboration that is
happening remotely.</div>
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<br>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
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Typical residential usage:</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">
Zoom group call: 2M upload</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">
OneDrive + Dropbox + Box + Other file sync services: ~ 1 - 5M</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">
Nest / Ring / Other constantly streaming camera = ~1M</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">
<br>
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255, 255);">
If I'm working on a media file that's syncing real-time + on a
zoom call, artifacts are impossible to avoid. Add to that 2+
users working remotely from the same home.</div>
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<br>
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255, 255);">
@Mike, Telehealth relies on a combination of HD video +
accessories that stream AV + telemetry in real-time. In addition
to bumping up the 4M upload, I agree with all the other comments
on here about setting some parameters around latency and packet
loss.</div>
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<br>
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255, 255);">
I think if anything, the proliferation of smart devices,
requirements for higher reliability and the continuity of WFH
practices are going to put additional demands on upload, not
lower.</div>
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<br>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">
Abhi</div>
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<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> NANOG
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog-bounces+abhi=devireddy.com@nanog.org"><nanog-bounces+abhi=devireddy.com@nanog.org></a> on behalf
of Blake Hudson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:blake@ispn.net"><blake@ispn.net></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 28, 2021 9:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"><nanog@nanog.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: New minimum speed for US broadband
connections</font>
<div>�</div>
</div>
<div>What is the rationale for changing it? Have the applications
changed? Has our use of them changed?<br>
<br>
Yes, somewhat. There's been, and will continue to be, more cord
cutting of non-IP broadcast video services towards unicast IP
streaming services. However, video codecs have gotten more
efficient so that what used to require an 8Mbps stream now fits
in a 4Mbps package. I see more folks video conferencing (whether
that be for personal or business use), which relies more heavily
on upload than most applications. Folks with crummy WiFi or
slower upload speeds have become the have-nots in this remote
work era. The goal of subsidies is to lift the base/minimum so
that there are fewer have-nots. Set the qualifier too low and
you'll end up providing assistance where it doesn't accomplish
this goal. Raise the qualifier too high too soon and you run the
risk of excluding assistance where it could help.<br>
<br>
I'm content with 10Mbps down per person in the household (a
quick rule of thumb I've been using for a few years). If a
common household has 4 people, 40Mbps download seems sufficient
for today's typical usage (this assumes a 10:1 download:upload
ratio, so ~4Mbps up). Latency needs to be quick enough for
real-time voice or video calls to work smoothly. If the makeup
of our homes change or the applications we use within the home
change, I'm all for adjusting these figures. This still leaves
DSL, cable, fiber, and various wireless technologies as options
that would qualify for the definition of broadband. At some
point, if one of these technologies cannot keep up with the pace
of demand it will need to be excluded in favor of technologies
that have done a better job of keeping pace.<br>
<br>
--B<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/2021 8:07 AM, Chris Adams
(IT) wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">I�d be interested to understand the
rationale for not wanting to change the definition. Is it
strictly the business/capital outlay expense?</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">�</p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">�</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">�</span></b><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chris
Adams</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">�</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> NANOG <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:nanog-bounces+chris.adams=ung.edu@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<nanog-bounces+chris.adams=ung.edu@nanog.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Canady<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 28, 2021 8:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" moz-do-not-send="true">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: New minimum speed for US broadband
connections</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">�</p>
<div style="border-top:solid 2.25pt; border-left:none 1.0pt;
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style="font-family:"Gotham A";
color:#FFC82E">CAUTION:</span><span
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This email originated from
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contact the IT Service Desk at 706-864-1922.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>I second Mike.</p>
<p>�</p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">On 5/28/21 8:37 AM, Mike Hammett
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
color:black">I don't think it needs to change.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
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color:black"><br>
<br>
-----<br>
Mike Hammett<br>
Intelligent Computing Solutions<br>
<a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ics-2Dil.com&d=DwMDaQ&c=FbBevciwIvGuzsJQdDnze9uCWRSXekJosRCbxNiCfPE&r=2xyWjaGAJiQBS60SNfJGVrkSN3JvZBCiAkWZBLNrNQA&m=hLl3tE5IUFeCnGVaq9aENU6Cb0VwUJSMovT2ACT74-I&s=S2l1XV98d5g-7uCPfcvNNU5WuML3uo1LVamsKRY-JHE&e="
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.ics-il.com</a><br>
<br>
Midwest-IX<br>
<a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.midwest-2Dix.com&d=DwMDaQ&c=FbBevciwIvGuzsJQdDnze9uCWRSXekJosRCbxNiCfPE&r=2xyWjaGAJiQBS60SNfJGVrkSN3JvZBCiAkWZBLNrNQA&m=hLl3tE5IUFeCnGVaq9aENU6Cb0VwUJSMovT2ACT74-I&s=qGvndXaVQIOyFcKDLyED-Ufmklruq9Q3pArgVVFK1A8&e="
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.midwest-ix.com</a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
color:black">�</span></p>
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align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;
color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;
color:black">"Sean Donelan"
<a href="mailto:sean@donelan.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sean@donelan.com></a><br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, May 27, 2021 7:29:08 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>New minimum speed for US
broadband connections<br>
<br>
<br>
What should be the new minimum speed for
"broadband" in the U.S.?<br>
</span><br>
</p>
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