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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/20/2021 3:34 PM, David Siegel
      wrote:<br>
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        <div>...not to mention that all mature networks are moving more
          towards GUI front ends for their automated network.  As the
          complexity of a network increases, CLI access becomes
          considerably more risky.
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            <div>The idea that "real engineers use the CLI" is dinosaur
              thinking that will eventually land those with that
              philosophy out of a job.  Just my personal $.02 (though
              I'm certainly not alone in my opinion).</div>
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    <p>I didn't mean to imply "real engineers use the CLI" only, but
      that's the way you read it (perhaps others, too), so all good. 
      Definitely, there is no shortage of network engineering jobs for
      those that mainly use CLI compared to those that use mainly/only a
      GUI, at least as far as I have seen.  The CLI works on all
      networks, but a GUI is different in each network.  As was
      mentioned upthread, there is a place for a GUI.  I am not implying
      there is not a place for it.<br>
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    <p>I can't even begin to imagine trying to troubleshoot the complex
      problems I deal with day-to-day on a GUI and I am on a medium
      sized network compared to those on this list.<br>
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            <div>But I'd like to reiterate that the board's goal
              with modernization is not to alienate anyone from the
              existing community by forcing them into a web-interface. 
              Discourse is under evaluation, and if it doesn't
              accomplish the goal we'll try something else or build our
              own tool.</div>
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    <p>Thanks for that. I consider this list one of the most important
      tools I have for learning about networking.</p>
    <p>scott<br>
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            <div>Dave</div>
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        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 6:52
          PM Matthew Petach <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">mpetach@netflight.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at
                5:13 PM scott <<a
                  href="mailto:surfer@mauigateway.com" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">surfer@mauigateway.com</a>>
                wrote:<br>
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              <div>[...] </div>
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                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Of course, one would
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                not find an HTTP GUI on the bigger networks dealt with
                on this list; <br>
                only on the tiny networks.  So they're beginning
                learners and are, of <br>
                course, welcome.  They will lean a lot, just as I did in
                the early days <br>
                and do every day now days.</blockquote>
              <div>[...] </div>
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                scott<br>
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              <div>Let's see...</div>
              <div>Google: Gmail</div>
              <div>Microsoft: Hotmail/Outlook/Office365</div>
              <div>Yahoo/VerizonMedia: Yahoo Mail</div>
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              <div>I'd have to say, there's some pretty big networks on
                this list that </div>
              <div>use HTTP GUIs for their email.</div>
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              <div>Of course, you might be big enough that you look down
                on the </div>
              <div>networks of Google, Microsoft, and VZM as "tiny
                networks" -- in </div>
              <div>which case, you're definitely entitled to your
                opinion, as all 8000</div>
              <div>pound gorillas that look down on the puny 800 lb
                gorillas are.  ;)</div>
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              <div>Matt</div>
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