<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dave,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am a regular discourse user these days. I have been a NANOG list participant for at least a quarter of a century. I find all the modern forums require examining multiple web pages and do not support gaining any historical perspective or assist in correlating various topics into a coherent gestalt. They also require waiting for all the embellishments and formatting which html users prize as advantages, even when words, well reasoned or hasty, would serve as well or better.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As you might surmise from the forgoing: IT AINT BROKE. DON’T FIX IT. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Pardon my shouting in my fervent expression of my opinion, but it is important that you hear and consider this.<br class=""><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div><br class=""></div><div>-<br class="">James R Cutler</div><div><a href="mailto:james.cutler@consultant.com" class="">james.cutler@consultant.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><div>On Mar 20, 2021, at 2:46 PM, David Siegel <<a href="mailto:arizonagull@gmail.com" class="">arizonagull@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">The board has been thinking about enhancements to the NANOG list for a couple of years now, with the goal of creating a modern interface that the younger generation of engineers will be more comfortable using.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>Those of you that have attended recent NANOG members meetings may recall that we are currently beta testing a new community interface called discourse as part of our NANOG modernization strategic initiative. If it proves out as the new interface, it will support multiple web-based forums, and each forum will feature a fully integrated two-way email interface. Once in full production, the existing general mailing list will be moved to the platform, and additional topics/mailing-lists will be created.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you prefer to join a specific forum but continue to use email as you always have, that will be an option and there will be many new topic-specific mailing lists. Those that wish to use a more modern looking web-based interface for discussion can use that, or anyone can use a hybrid of the two methods in the same forum (email or web-based).<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The beta is currently only open to board members, but we expect it to be opened for further beta testing and feedback later this year within the existing community.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Dave Siegel</div><div class="">NANOG board Vice-Chair</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 9:57 AM Mike Hammett <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net" class="">nanog@ics-il.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class="">That seems like a reasonable proposal. NANOG-OffTopic, NANOG-Discuss, NANOG-BizDev, NANOG-xyz, something (more more than one something).<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The other lists still wouldn't allow promotion, but you could make inquiries and discuss things that don't involve enable or configure.<br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span name="x" class=""></span><br class=""><br class="">-----<br class="">Mike Hammett<br class="">Intelligent Computing Solutions<br class=""><a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.ics-il.com</a><br class=""><br class="">Midwest-IX<br class=""><a href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.midwest-ix.com</a><span name="x" class=""></span><br class=""></div><br class=""><hr id="gmail-m_-4891177981132336670zwchr" class=""><div style="font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><b class="">From: </b>"Eric Kuhnke" <<a href="mailto:eric.kuhnke@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">eric.kuhnke@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">To: </b>"Matthew Petach" <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com" target="_blank" class="">mpetach@netflight.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc: </b>"NANOG" <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank" class="">nanog@nanog.org</a>>, <a href="mailto:admins@nanog.org" target="_blank" class="">admins@nanog.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Sent: </b>Thursday, March 18, 2021 6:43:41 PM<br class=""><b class="">Subject: </b>Re: Perhaps it's time to think about enhancements to the NANOG list...?<br class=""><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Perhaps the sales, marketing and 'business development' people who've never typed "enable" or "configure" into a router a single day in their lives might be better served with a dedicated list that is mission focused on bizdev, and not operational issues. <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:29 PM Matthew Petach <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com" target="_blank" class="">mpetach@netflight.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:37 AM Tom Beecher <<a href="mailto:beecher@beecher.cc" class="">beecher@beecher.cc</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">CC back to the mailing list for visibility, since I ate the CC list. </div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 1:31 PM Tom Beecher <<a href="mailto:beecher@beecher.cc" class="">beecher@beecher.cc</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">Rod-<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please refer to the usage guidelines found here. <a href="https://nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/" target="_blank" class="">https://nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/</a></div><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(33,37,41);font-family:roboto,sans-serif;font-size:16px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">14. <span style="color:rgb(33,37,41);font-family:roboto,sans-serif;font-size:16px" class="">Posts that encourage or facilitate an agreement about the following subjects are inappropriate: prices, discounts, or terms or conditions of sale; salaries; benefits, profits, profit margins, or cost data; market shares, sales territories, or markets; allocation of customers or territories; or selection, rejection, or termination of customers or suppliers.</span></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> I would tend to agree that while most of your posts to the list are within the guidelines, there have been occasions where a reasonable person could think you might be skirting the line a bit. In this case :</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Your company works as a broker to procure capacity for others. </div><div class="">- You sent an email to the list that wording wise would be exactly the same as many of us might send to someone they were looking for capacity from. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think most would agree this is pretty clearly against both the usage guidelines and the spirit of what this mailing list is about. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would also like to remind you that this list is administered by the NANOG organization. You have no authority to tell others to 'cease and desist', and insult someone as 'underemployed' is also not well tolerated here. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have looped in the list admins here. It would probably be a good idea to refrain from future messages that are clearly commercial in nature, or that contain unnecessary insults. </div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If only we had some way to segregate out different topics </div><div class="">of interest or disinterest, so that people who weren't interested </div><div class="">in questions about bandwidth availability could unsubscribe </div><div class="">from those topics, and only subscribe to the topics that *did*</div><div class="">interest them...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">#AFewDaysTooEarly</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">^_^;;</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Matt</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div></div></div>
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