<div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:52 AM Mike Hammett <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net">nanog@ics-il.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000"><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">This is from the perspective of an eyeball network. I understand that content networks would have different objectives and reasons. For instance, I have little to no reason as an eyeball network to exchange traffic with any other eyeball network (aside from P2P games). For a content network, getting into the eyeball networks is their objective.</span></font></div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt"><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br></span></font></div>My crystal ball tells me this thread will spiral out of control because people won't be able to keep it on topic, but it is a question that I hear VERY often. I also expect a lot of purely bad or outdated information to get thrown out.</span></font><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Please try to keep it on topic and not being pedantic over relatively unimportant details.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">There are two major low-cost providers, Cogent and HE.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Cogent</div><div><ul><li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Refuses to peer IPv6 with HE</span></font></li><li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Refuses to peer IPv6 with Google</span></font></li><li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Aggressive sales tactics</span></font></li></ul><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Hurricane</span></font></div><div><ul><li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Doesn't have Cogent IPv6 because of Cogent's refusal</span></font></li></ul></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is only a downside for an ipv6 network that is single home behind cogent... which is ... already absurdly negligent. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I say avoid both, but lower downsides with HE</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000"><div><div><ul dir="auto"><li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"></span></font></li><li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Lack of communities for anything other than blackholes</span></font></li></ul><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></div></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">I know there are a variety of other providers such as Fusion Network that operate at similar price points, but are available in way fewer locations.</span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">What else is out there? Anyone else that isn't 5x, 10x the cost?</span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Cogent and HE get looked down upon (and sometimes deservedly so), but when I talk to someone trying to sell me a port in 350 Cermak for 8x the cost of Cogent and HE, you better have a very good argument for why you're worth it...  and they never do. "We're not Cogent." "and?" Many times I'm quoted transit that costs more than Cogent + IX + HE and they don't really have a good argument for it.</span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">As an eyeball, I join an IX and there goes 50% - 85% of my traffic and almost all of my traffic that anyone is going to notice or complain about if there are issues (video streaming).</span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">I do understand that enterprise eyeballs may have different requirements.<br></span></font></div><br><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><span name="x"></span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none">-----</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none">Mike Hammett</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Intelligent Computing Solutions</a><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png" style="border:0pt none"></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png" style="border:0pt none"></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png" style="border:0pt none"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ICSIL" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png" style="border:0pt none"></a><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Midwest Internet Exchange</a><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:n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