<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"courier new",monospace;font-size:small">Hey Rich!<br>I'm in love with this RFC...<br><br>It is not an easy one, so I did not understand it completely yet.<br>But It is almost what I was thinking...<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">Does anyone saw any docs about deploying it?<br>Any software that implements it?<br><br><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em ter., 2 de fev. de 2021 às 15:53, Compton, Rich A <<a href="mailto:Rich.Compton@charter.com">Rich.Compton@charter.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">Hi, here is a Flowspec best practices document that I helped write that will hopefully help folks from shooting themselves in the foot
<a href="http://m3aawg.org/flowspec-BP" target="_blank">http://m3aawg.org/flowspec-BP</a>. As you stated, route policies can be applied to restrict what type of flowspec rules can or can’t be accepted. For example, only allow a rule from the Flowspec controller if it specifies
a /32 destination IP and is tagged with a particular community, reject all else.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">Douglas, I think what you are looking for is DOTS:
<a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8811" target="_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8811</a> DOTS has a data channel which allows the DOTS client and server to communicate telemetry about the attack. The RFC is pretty new. I don’t think that there are any companies
that have implemented it yet. Hopefully this protocol will be adopted by DDoS mitigation companies soon.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">-Rich Compton<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">NANOG <nanog-bounces+rich.compton=<a href="mailto:charter.com@nanog.org" target="_blank">charter.com@nanog.org</a>> on behalf of Douglas Fischer <<a href="mailto:fischerdouglas@gmail.com" target="_blank">fischerdouglas@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 10:10 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc><br>
<b>Cc: </b>NANOG list <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: RTBH and Flowspec Measurements - Stop guessing when the attack will over<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Well... That is a point of view!<br>
And I must respect that.<br>
<br>
Against this position, there are several companies, including some tier 1, that sells this as an $extra$.<br>
<br>
About the "Please break me at my earliest inconvenience." part:<br>
I believe that the same type of prefix filtering that applies to Downstream-BGP-Routes applies to RTBH and Flowspec.<br>
So, exactly as in common BGP Route-Filtering:<br>
- If the network operator does it correctly, it should work correctly.<br>
- If the network operator deals with that without the needed skills, expertise, attention+devotion, wrong things will come up.<br>
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<br>
But, this still does not helps to find a solution do an organization A that sends some flowspec our RTBH to organization B(presuming organization B will accept that), and organization B do some reports of what is match with that flowspec or RTBH.<br>
<br>
That, in my opinion, is the only way to stop guessing how long will an attack will last, and start to define the end of a flowspec/RTBH action based on real information related to that.<br>
I want to close the feedback loop.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Em ter., 2 de fev. de 2021 às 13:07, Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc> escreveu:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Personally, I would absolutely, positively, never ever under any circumstances provide access to a 3rd party company to push a FlowSpec rule or trigger RTBH on my networks. No way. You would be handing over a nuclear trigger and saying
"Please break me at my earliest inconvenience." <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 5:56 AM Douglas Fischer <<a href="mailto:fischerdouglas@gmail.com" target="_blank">fischerdouglas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New"">OK, but do you know any company the sells de Flowspec as a service, in the way that the Attack Identifications are not made by their equipment, just receiving
de BGP-FlowSpec and applying that rules on that equipments... And even then give back to the customer some way to access those statistics?<br>
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I just know one or two that do that, and(sadly) they do it on fancy web reports or PDFs.<br>
Without any chance of using that as structured data do feedback the anomaly detection tools to determine if already it is the time to remove that Flowsperc rule.<br>
<br>
What I'm looking for is something like:<br>
A) XML/JSON/CSV files streamed to my equipment from the Flowspec Upstream Equipments saying "Heepend that, that, and that." Almost in real time.<br>
B) NetFlow/IPFIX/SFlow streamed to my equipment from the Upstream Equipment, restricted to the DST-Address that matches to the IP blocks that were involved to the Flowspec or RTBH that I Annouced to then.<br>
C) Any other idea that does the job of gives me the visibility of what is happening with FlowSpec-rules, or RTBH on theyr network.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Em seg., 1 de fev. de 2021 às 22:07, Dobbins, Roland <<a href="mailto:Roland.Dobbins@netscout.com" target="_blank">Roland.Dobbins@netscout.com</a>> escreveu:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 2, 2021, at 00:34, Douglas Fischer <<a href="mailto:fischerdouglas@gmail.com" target="_blank">fischerdouglas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Or even know if already there is a solution to that and I'm trying to invent the wheel.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Many flow telemetry export implementations on routers/layer3 switches report both passed & dropped traffic on a continuous basis for DDoS detection/classification/traceback. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It's also possible to combine the detection/classification/traceback & flowspec trigger functions. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">[Full disclosure: I work for a vendor of such systems.]<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal"><span style="font-size:17.5pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)">--------------------------------------------</span><span style="font-size:13pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal"><span style="font-size:17.5pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)">Roland Dobbins <<a href="mailto:roland.dobbins@netscout.com" target="_blank">roland.dobbins@netscout.com</a>></span><span style="font-size:13pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Douglas Fernando Fischer<br>
Engº de Controle e Automação</span> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Douglas Fernando Fischer<br>
Engº de Controle e Automação</span> <u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:"courier new",monospace">Douglas Fernando Fischer</span><br style="font-family:"courier new",monospace"><span style="font-family:"courier new",monospace">Engº de Controle e Automação</span></font><div style="padding:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px;overflow:hidden;color:black;text-align:left;line-height:130%;font-family:"courier new",monospace"></div></div>