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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> NANOG <nanog-bounces+michael=spears.io@nanog.org> on behalf of Bryan Holloway <bryan@shout.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 19, 2021 12:37:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Martijn Schmidt <martijnschmidt@i3d.net>; William Herrin <bill@herrin.us><br>
<b>Cc:</b> NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Hosting recommendations ... ?</font>
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<div class="PlainText">You make an excellent point, Martijn ... (and I suspect this is what
<br>
Bill was pointing out ...)<br>
<br>
Virtualization on top of virtualization is inherently not the best idea.<br>
<br>
I guess I'm looking for flexibility in the sense of being able to spin <br>
up additional VMs at my leisure. In which case #2 could be suitable in <br>
the right environment.<br>
<br>
... in which case SLAs would be tantamount to success ...<br>
<br>
So ... that said, any recommendations? :)<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/19/21 6:32 PM, Martijn Schmidt wrote:<br>
> For #1, are you trying to do "Cloud-ception" e.g. running your own <br>
> proxmox virtualization on top of an already virtual machine, so that <br>
> you're basically two layers deep?<br>
> <br>
> For #2, of course you need to be able to survive a hardware failure <br>
> (using RAID1 or some flavour of DRBD for example) but having to think <br>
> about such things is the "trade-off" of having access to the bare-metal <br>
> layer.. it does have advantages, for example if you want to install your <br>
> own virtualization layer without any involvement from the hosting <br>
> provider. You'd usually have agreements with the hosting provider about <br>
> how/when hardware replacements would be done.<br>
> <br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Martijn<br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+martijnschmidt=i3d.net@nanog.org> on behalf <br>
> of Bryan Holloway <bryan@shout.net><br>
> *Sent:* 19 January 2021 18:18<br>
> *To:* William Herrin <bill@herrin.us><br>
> *Cc:* NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org><br>
> *Subject:* Re: Hosting recommendations ... ?<br>
> Perhaps I'm missing something, but in your #1 example "Cloud", what<br>
> prevents me from running a Proxmox ISO (which is more or less Debian)<br>
> vs. a "standard" Debian install on the provider's virtual server?<br>
> <br>
> If I can, I've succeeded. That is the sort of hosting provider I'm<br>
> looking for, if they exist.<br>
> <br>
> #2 would be suitable, but it seems to be that if leased bare-metal dies,<br>
> it will be some time for ETR. Less desirable, but I'm open to ideas.<br>
> <br>
> #3 I do now. Trying to move away from that.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 1/19/21 5:44 PM, William Herrin wrote:<br>
>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 8:31 AM Bryan Holloway <bryan@shout.net> wrote:<br>
>>> I would like to stop personally dealing with bare-metal. That's what I'm<br>
>>> doing now.<br>
>> <br>
>> Hi Bryan,<br>
>> <br>
>> Cloud = you get virtual servers with virtual storage, generally<br>
>> adjustable to meet your needs. You manage the operating systems and<br>
>> storage within the virtual environment. You DO NOT manage the host<br>
>> operating systems or hypervisors.<br>
>> <br>
>> Bare metal = you lease physical equipment. You manage all software on<br>
>> the equipment including any hypervisors needed to run virtual servers.<br>
>> You DO NOT deal with hardware break/fix, that problem belongs to the<br>
>> service provider.<br>
>> <br>
>> Colocation = You lease space in a data center. You provide physical<br>
>> equipment in your custom configuration.<br>
>> <br>
>> With this terminology, at least one of your requirements is unmeetable<br>
>> for contradicting the others. So I ask again for clarification: which<br>
>> of these do you seek?<br>
>> <br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Bill Herrin<br>
>> <br>
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