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Well,<br>
<br>
I'm just saying...<br>
<br>
Speculating about "how to/was harm", on an open forum, is a
good way to help design "scenarios" that can be abused by bad
actors. It would be better to address it in an academia setting.<br>
<br>
*Now* if you're looking for worker safety, surely your local
jurisdiction have a compliance body able to provide best practices
to protect the workers. I hate to bring RFC1149 again, but those
high power microwave antenna are hell on packet drops on that
medium.<br>
<br>
PS: From my experiences with 2 .com about a FPGA Based Firewall
and a FIPS-140 Encryption Network Card. And my associate ~15y in
the RF radio industry.
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-----
Alain Hebert <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ahebert@pubnix.net">ahebert@pubnix.net</a>
PubNIX Inc.
50 boul. St-Charles
P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7
Tel: 514-990-5911 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.pubnix.net">http://www.pubnix.net</a> Fax: 514-990-9443
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/5/20 10:22 AM, Suresh Kalkunte
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGZ4ZWn5ZyL-OaJCRyN_W5UpU9CP4kefJ+vgUHejCsqOoDi7YA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
> Can you provide a case where this may
<div>> have happened?</div>
<div>></div>
<div>As you mention, a normal operational scenario finds powerful
RF on the rooftop. My concern is an abnormal scenario where
powerful RF is used to sabotage an electronic equipment or
human. Magnetron + horn antenna (forgive me for using this as an
example a few times so far) for instance is capable of
significant harm. If I mention, I have been victimized, at
present we do not have the diagnostic/forensic tests (forensic
DNA scientists at the NIST can be contacted to verify) to prove
intentional harm from powerful EMF has occurred.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My motivation to bring this topic for discussion is to make
aware of the unlimited risk _if_ someone chooses to use powerful
EMF as a method of sabotage. I do not relish to discuss this,
but I remember reading on NANOG some 20-25 years ago, I
paraphrase 'those with anti-social intentions do not publish
papers'.</div>
<div><br>
Regards,</div>
<div>Suresh </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On Thursday, November 5, 2020, <<a
href="mailto:nathanb@sswireless.net" moz-do-not-send="true">nathanb@sswireless.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"
lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To that end, anyone working around RF
should be properly trained and use the safety tools
provided them, they should be fine. If an untrained
individual does something and gets hurt with high power
RF, it is unfortunate and happens all too often because
of people thinking that the worst case things don’t
happen to them… </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you provide a case where this may
have happened? Any RF in a Data Center should be on the
roof, and isolated from the room at all times. This is
standard practice in every RF data room we’ve ever been
in, whether it be commercial or Government.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<span style="background:white">Regards,</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">Nathan Babcock</span><br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> NANOG
<nanog-bounces+nathanb=<a
href="mailto:sswireless.net@nanog.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sswirel<wbr>ess.net@nanog.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alain Hebert<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 10:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Technology risk without
safeguards</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Maybe someone is just looking for
"inspiration".<br>
<br>
There is other venues to work this out "safely",
IMHO.<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>-----</pre>
<pre>Alain Hebert <wbr> <a href="mailto:ahebert@pubnix.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ahebert@pubnix.net</a> </pre>
<pre>PubNIX Inc. </pre>
<pre><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/50+boul.+St-Charles?entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">50 boul. St-Charles</a></pre>
<pre>P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7</pre>
<pre>Tel: 514-990-5911 <a href="http://www.pubnix.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.pubnix.net</a> Fax: 514-990-9443</pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 11/4/20 12:24 PM, Matt Harris
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:48 AM
Suresh Kalkunte <<a
href="mailto:sskalkunte@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sskalkunte@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe the below
described method of causing intentional (1)
damage to equipment in data centers and (2)
physical injury to a person at the workplace
is on-topic for the NANOG community, if not, I
look forward to your feedback. As a software
developer who has subscribed to the NANOG
mailing list for a number of years, I post
this note relying on intellectual honesty that
I have had the opportunity to observe since
1996-97.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The below described
technology risk is applicable to
computing/communication equipment rendered
vulnerable by Intentional Electromagnetic
Interference (jamming an electronic device)
and the risk of health sabotage affecting
people (jamming a human) managing the Internet
infrastructure enabled by intentional
application of powerful radiofrequency fields
(RF) emitted by re-purposed components
salvaged from a kitchen heating appliance
(Magnetron) or from an outdoor high gain/power
Line of sight transceiver (unidirectional
microwave radio) which has a harm causing
range up to 25 meters (estimated using a
Spectral Power Density calculator like <a
href="http://www.hintlink.com/power_density.htm"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.hintlink.com/power_<wbr>density.htm</a>).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This risk from
mis-application of powerful RF is from human
operated or IoT apparatus** with an avenue of
approch from (a) subterrain placement aided by
a compact/mini directional horizontal drilling
machine (eg. principle of placing a stent in
the heart) and/or (b) strategic placement in
an obscure over-surface location to maximize
negative impact on the target of opportunity.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">With building materials or
ground offer insufficient* protection to block
the passage of powerful RF and the absence of
diagnostic/forensic tests to detect biomarkers
expressed post-overexposure to harmful RF
(combination of RF frequency, Spectral Power
Density/Specific Absorption Rate incident on a
person and duration of exposure), intentional
damage to electronic equipment and people is
at present unrestricted.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The purpose of bringing
this method of exploting technology to your
attention is with an interest to build the
momentum for ushering in the much needed
safeguards in this context.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I'm a bit confused as
to what this message is trying to ultimately get
at, it should be noted that folks who work with
RF communications equipment and other EM
emitters which are strong enough to cause harm
to a person are generally well aware of the
necessary precautions and take them on a day to
day basis when working with this equipment. If
there's evidence that some part of our industry
is ignoring or failing to train their team
members on safety best practices, then let's
hear that out specifically and I'm all for
working to rectify that. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On the other hand, the post
seems to hint at intentionally using high
powered RF to inflict intentional harm on a
person or to jam communications signals. The
former is relatively difficult to do by virtue
of the amount of power necessary. Quite
basically, there are much easier ways to go
about injuring someone if that's what you want
to do. Of course, intentionally injuring another
person is a criminal act in just about every
jurisdiction. As far as the latter goes, the
ability to jam RF communications has existed for
as long as RF communication has, and the
knowledge of how to accomplish it is relatively
widespread. It is also illegal in the US and
most likely many other jurisdictions as well,
and in the US the FCC has enforcement power with
the ability to levy some pretty hefty fines on
anyone who does so, even inadvertently though
negligent practices. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The post states that their
intention is to "build the momentum for ushering
in the much needed safeguards in this context."
but lacks specificity with regard to what
safeguards they propose beyond the
legal/regulatory ones that already exist, so I'm
not sure what more can really be said here. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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