<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000'>Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers?<br><br><div><span name="x"></span><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline !important;float:none">-----</span><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline !important;float:none">Mike Hammett</span><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Intelligent Computing Solutions</a><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png" style="border:0pt none" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png"></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png" style="border:0pt none" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png"></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png" style="border:0pt none" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ICSIL" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png" style="border:0pt none" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png"></a><br style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/" style="font-family:'times new roman';font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Midwest Internet Exchange</a><br style="color:rg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n a single port</div><div class="">-Having a camera folks need to access from the outside world</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is why platforms like Xbox developed things like Teredo.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div>Justin Wilson<br class=""><a href="mailto:j2sw@mtin.net" class="" target="_blank">j2sw@mtin.net</a><br class=""><br class="">—<br class="">https://j2sw.com - All things jsw (AS209109)<br class="">https://blog.j2sw.com - Podcast and Blog</div>
</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote class=""><div class="">On Sep 27, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Daniel Sterling <<a href="mailto:sterling.daniel@gmail.com" class="" target="_blank">sterling.daniel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work rather well and should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically turning on upnp makes this *worse*, because when their algorithm probes to see what ports to use, upnp sends all traffic from the "magical xbox port" to one box instead of letting NAT control the ports. This does cause problems when multiple xboxes are behind one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and both xboxes are fully powered off and then turned on one at a time, things do work. But when upnp is off everything works w/o having to do that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do horrible things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems for any recent device / gaming system.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and it wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support dual-stack. just a guess there</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-- Dan</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net" class="" target="_blank">nanog@ics-il.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class="">Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work behind one public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept up in that realm.<br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class=""></span><br style="font-family: "times new roman"; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: "times new roman"; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: "times new roman"; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline;" class="">-----</span><br style="font-family: "times new roman"; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: "times new roman"; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline;" class="">Mike Hammett</span><br style="font-family: "times new roman"; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" style="font-family: "times new roman"; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">Intelligent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<br class="">
We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have gaming consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their way through a PAT system with STUN or other methods?<br class="">
<br class="">
It seems like this should be a simple solution, why are we still opening ports or having systems that don’t work?</blockquote></div>
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