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<p>I'm outside of Tampa (18th largest MSA in the US). The two
providers here, Spectrum (former Brighthouse area) and Frontier
(bought out Verizon's FIOS offering) are both IPv4 only (including
on their SOHO/SMB offerings).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Every time I've called in, I've asked if they are offering IPv6
yet. Most of the time I've had to follow that up with explaining
what IPv6 is, even to the technical support people.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>So I'm stuck with doing an HE tunnel still for my IPv6 access.
If anybody has a petition to change this with these providers, let
me know, happy to sign it.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Jeremy<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/28/20 08:44, Mike Hammett wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:497887988.2866.1601297091841.JavaMail.mhammett@Thunderfuck2">
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
10pt; color: #000000">Are non-ISP-provided routers all that
common anymore?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Aren't there enough IPv6-enabled operators with critical
mass of IPv6 deployments that IPv4-only networks can be
treated like the second-tier citizens they are?<br>
<br>
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<div
style="color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>From:
</b>"Matt Hoppes" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net"><mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Mike Hammett" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net"><nanog@ics-il.net></a>, "Daniel
Sterling" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sterling.daniel@gmail.com"><sterling.daniel@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"North American Network Operators' Group"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"><nanog@nanog.org></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, September 28, 2020 7:42:16 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4<br>
<br>
Many... but not all... and just because the operator is
doesn't mean the <br>
person you want to play with is. And just because the
operator is <br>
doesn't mean the router you or the other person is using
supports it.<br>
<br>
On 9/28/20 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:<br>
> Aren't most of the major operators using IPv6?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----<br>
> Mike Hammett<br>
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ics-il.com/"><http://www.ics-il.com/></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL"><https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb"><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions"><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/ICSIL"><https://twitter.com/ICSIL></a><br>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/"><http://www.midwest-ix.com/></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix"><https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange"><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/mdwestix"><https://twitter.com/mdwestix></a><br>
> The Brothers WISP
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/"><http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp"><https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg"><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg></a><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> *From: *"Daniel Sterling"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sterling.daniel@gmail.com"><sterling.daniel@gmail.com></a><br>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net"><nanog@ics-il.net></a><br>
> *Cc: *"Matt Hoppes"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net"><mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net></a>, "North American <br>
> Network Operators' Group" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"><nanog@nanog.org></a><br>
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 8:33:56 PM<br>
> *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4<br>
> <br>
> Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question,<br>
> <br>
> At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call
of duty games <br>
> I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to
work rather well <br>
> and should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically
turning on upnp <br>
> makes this *worse*, because when their algorithm probes
to see what <br>
> ports to use, upnp sends all traffic from the "magical
xbox port" to one <br>
> box instead of letting NAT control the ports. This does
cause problems <br>
> when multiple xboxes are behind one NAT doing upnp. If
upnp is on and <br>
> both xboxes are fully powered off and then turned on
one at a time, <br>
> things do work. But when upnp is off everything works
w/o having to do that.<br>
> <br>
> There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that
may do horrible <br>
> things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems
for any recent <br>
> device / gaming system.<br>
> <br>
> It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6.
I assume that's <br>
> cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have
to support v4, and <br>
> it wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming
host support <br>
> dual-stack. just a guess there<br>
> <br>
> -- Dan<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net">nanog@ics-il.net</a> <br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net"><mailto:nanog@ics-il.net></a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices
to work behind one<br>
> public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept
up in that realm.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----<br>
> Mike Hammett<br>
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ics-il.com/"><http://www.ics-il.com/></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL"><https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb"><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions"><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/ICSIL"><https://twitter.com/ICSIL></a><br>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/"><http://www.midwest-ix.com/></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix"><https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange"><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/mdwestix"><https://twitter.com/mdwestix></a><br>
> The Brothers WISP
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/"><http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp"><https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg"><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg></a><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net">mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net"><mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net></a>><br>
> *To: *"Darin Steffl" <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com">darin.steffl@mnwifi.com</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com"><mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com></a>><br>
> *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org"><mailto:nanog@nanog.org></a>><br>
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM<br>
> *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4<br>
> <br>
> I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons
why that night not<br>
> work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the
same PAT device, an<br>
> apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc.<br>
> <br>
> On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl<br>
> <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com">darin.steffl@mnwifi.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com"><mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com></a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> This isn't rocket science.<br>
> <br>
> Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address
and turn on upnp,<br>
> then they will have open NAT to play their game
and host.<br>
> <br>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes<br>
> <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net">mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net"><mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net></a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but
I’m curious if<br>
> anyone here knows why gaming consoles are
so stupid when it<br>
> comes to IPv4?<br>
> <br>
> We have VoIP and video systems that work
fine through<br>
> multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we
still have gaming<br>
> consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their
way through a PAT<br>
> system with STUN or other methods?<br>
> <br>
> It seems like this should be a simple
solution, why are we<br>
> still opening ports or having systems that
don’t work?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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