<div dir="ltr">I think people can tell the difference just fine. <div><br></div><div>But get lawyers involved on what the word 'emergency' means, then watch the fun. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:47 AM Mel Beckman <<a href="mailto:mel@beckman.org">mel@beckman.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div dir="ltr">If you say "$Service should reduce their bit rates because this is an emergency!" , I guarantee that exact same argument will be made well after this crisis has passed with a different definition of "emergency", and adding on "well it's an emergency
to me!"</div>
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Well, that’s a silly argument. Do you think people can’t tell the difference between a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic and somebody who’s having a “personal emergency”?
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<div dir="ltr"> -mel </div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 20, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">It is something that matters, because it has the potential to set a dangerous precedent.
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<div>If you say "$Service should reduce their bit rates because this is an emergency!" , I guarantee that exact same argument will be made well after this crisis has passed with a different definition of "emergency", and adding on "well it's an emergency to
me!".</div>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px">Some of the pipes Netflix goes through is also used by other services that aren't as adaptable.</span><br>
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<div>And how is that Netflix's responsibility? They have already taken action to ramp down bitrates when they detect congestion. Why should other applications be able to say piss off, I don't want to? Didn't we just have a 10 year net neutrality argument that
we're not supposed to want to treat the bits differently?</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:17 AM Mike Hammett <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net" target="_blank">nanog@ics-il.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
It's one of those most important things that matters.
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<div>The end user likely won't notice the difference between 4k and 720p. They also aren't likely to notice the transition from one to the other.</div>
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<div>The person on the VPN, VoIP call, video conference, video game, etc. will very much notice the congested link, even if it's only a few seconds.</div>
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<div>Yes, Netflix video is very efficient, if not the most efficient. They're also one of if not the largest slingers of bits on the Internet. Small changes in usage of such a huge player totally eclipse most other usages on the Internet.</div>
<div><br>
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<div><a href="https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306" target="_blank">https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306</a></div>
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<div>Netflix recommends 25 megs for Ultra HD, while only 5 megs for HD. That's a 5x difference in something people likely won't notice and would make a big difference on the additional VPN, VoIP, video conferencing, etc.<br>
<br>
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<hr id="gmail-m_1642675916991493267gmail-m_-3248774531151949119zwchr">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<b>From: </b>"Blake Hudson" <<a href="mailto:blake@ispn.net" target="_blank">blake@ispn.net</a>><br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, March 20, 2020 9:01:18 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks<br>
<br>
Yes, but does that matter? If there's extra capacity on the link, Netflix runs at full rate. If there is not extra capacity Netflix rates down to prevent congestion. While streaming video (including Netflix) uses a lot of bandwidth, I don't see Netflix causing
congestion. It gets a bad wrap, and I think that's unfair because Netflix is actually really efficient and really conscientious compared to others.<br>
<br>
<div>On 3/20/2020 8:52 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Some of the pipes Netflix goes through is also used by other services that aren't as adaptable.<br>
<br>
<div><span></span><br>
<br>
<span>-----</span><br>
<span>Mike Hammett</span><br>
<a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Intelligent Computing Solutions</a><br>
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<hr id="gmail-m_1642675916991493267gmail-m_-3248774531151949119zwchr">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<b>From: </b>"Blake Hudson" <a href="mailto:blake@ispn.net" target="_blank"><blake@ispn.net></a><br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, March 20, 2020 8:32:45 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/19/2020 12:22 PM, Mark Tinka wrote:<br>
><br>
> On 19/Mar/20 18:07, Matt Hoppes wrote:<br>
>> Agreed... 720 or 1080 Netflix will work just as fine as 4K for the<br>
>> next month or two.<br>
> Well, the article claims "Drop stream quality from HD". That means 4K,<br>
> 1080p and 720p.<br>
><br>
> If you have an OCA on your network, how does this encourage consumers to<br>
> use the "extra bandwidth" for anything else?<br>
><br>
> Are we assuming we know how consumers want to spend their time now?<br>
><br>
> Mark.<br>
<br>
Across several eyeball networks I'm not seeing any noticeable increase <br>
in peak (95%) demand between now and January. Since Netflix <br>
automatically scales down data rates in the event of congestion, the <br>
only thing I foresee forcing Netflix to reduce data rates [ahead of any <br>
congestion] would accomplish is causing excess link capacity to go <br>
unused (wasted). This sounds like a policy decision made without a <br>
technical argument... e.g. not a data driven decision, but a decision <br>
made out of fear or panic.<br>
<br>
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