<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 25, 2019, at 09:10 , Mark Seiden <<a href="mailto:mis@seiden.com" class="">mis@seiden.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div name="messageBodySection" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(39, 39, 40);" class="">feeling cranky, are we, job? </span><span style="caret-color: rgb(39, 39, 40);" class="">(accusing an antispam expert of spamming on a mailing list by having too long a .sig?)</span>
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<div class="">but it’s true! anne runs the internet, and the rest of us (except for ICANN GAC representatives) all accept that. <br class=""></div>
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<div class="">to actually try to make a more substantial point, i am quite curious how the AUPs of carriers try to disallow bandwidth resale while permitting</div>
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<li class="">cybercafe operations and other “free wifi" (where internet service might be provided for patrons in a hotel or cafe)</li></ul></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Business internet contracts usually don’t prohibit resale, or, they place different limits on it. Residential contracts usually flat out prohibit it.</div><div>At least in theory, I would expect most cybercafe and other such operations to have a business class of service from the ISP.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div name="messageBodySection" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, sans-serif;" class=""><div class=""><ul class="">
<li class="">wireless access point schemes where you make money or get credit for allowing use of your bandwidth (e.g. Fon)</li></ul></div></div></div></div></blockquote>For residential end users, it probably does violate the ToS, but it’s unlikely such violation would be easily detected or enforced.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div name="messageBodySection" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, sans-serif;" class=""><div class=""><ul class="">
<li class="">other proxy services that use bandwidth such as tor exit nodes and openvpn gateways</li></ul></div></div></div></div></blockquote>Unless you’re doing something illegal or making money selling your bandwidth, most things like this probably aren’t technically violations of the ToS.</div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div name="messageBodySection" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, sans-serif;" class=""><div class=""><ul class="">
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<div class="">i suppose they could just try to disallow resale or allow on-premises use even if revenue is received. the Fon business model seems pretty comparable to me.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I agree — I’m pretty sure that both the Fon model and the packetstream model are probably ToS violations for most residential services.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Fon is unlikely to get noticed by most ISPs.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Packetstream seems a lot more risky, IMHO.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div name="messageBodySection" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, sans-serif;" class=""><div class="">
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<div name="messageReplySection" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, sans-serif;" class="">On Apr 24, 2019, 10:51 PM -0700, Job Snijders <<a href="mailto:job@instituut.net" class="">job@instituut.net</a>>, wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid #1abc9c;" class="">Dear Anne,<br class="">
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On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:07:51PM -0600, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid #e67e22;" class="">How can this not be a violation of the ToS of just about every major provider?<br class=""></blockquote>
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Can you perhaps cite ToS excerpts from one or more major providers to<br class="">
support your assertion?<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid #e67e22;" class="">Anne P. Mitchell,<br class="">
Attorney at Law<br class="">
GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant<br class="">
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)<br class="">
Legislative Consultant<br class="">
CEO/President, Institute for Social Internet Public Policy<br class="">
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange<br class="">
Board of Directors, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop<br class="">
Legal Counsel: The CyberGreen Institute<br class="">
Legal Counsel: The Earth Law Center<br class="">
California Bar Association<br class="">
Cal. Bar Cyberspace Law Committee<br class="">
Colorado Cyber Committee<br class="">
Ret. Professor of Law, Lincoln Law School of San Jose<br class="">
Ret. Chair, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop<br class=""></blockquote>
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Are you listing all the above because you are presenting a formal<br class="">
position supported by all these organisations about ToS? Can you for<br class="">
instance clarify how signing of as a director for the Denver Internet<br class="">
Exchange shapes the context of your ToS message?<br class="">
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Or, perhaps you are listing the above for some kind of self-marketing<br class="">
purposes? If that is the case, please note that it is fairly uncommon to<br class="">
use the NANOG mailing list to distribute resumes. I know numerous<br class="">
websites dedicated to the dissemination of work histories, perhaps you<br class="">
can use those instead of operational mailling list?<br class="">
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Regards,<br class="">
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Job<br class="">
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ps. RFC 3676 section 4.3<br class=""></blockquote>
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