<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Correct. Its called a grooming clause and you can most certainly ensure you have language in your agreements with the vendor. Restrictions being it needs to be for wavelength or an IRU path which is custom anyhow. Also, KMZs or no business. Period. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">J~</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 2, Jan 2019, at 2:14 PM, Tom Beecher <<a href="mailto:beecher@beecher.cc" class="">beecher@beecher.cc</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">You can mitigate some of that by getting contract language in place that says a carrier must maintain the circuit on the specified and agreed pathway, and if it's later discovered that it has been moved, you don't pay for the circuit from the time it was moved until it is restored. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It's a nice bit of leverage to make sure they *DO* pay attention when they regroom to avoid surprises. :) </div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:53 PM Mike Hammett <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net" class="">nanog@ics-il.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class="">It's easier when you use carriers that provide usable network maps on their web site. Less guess work.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When I got a Windstream wave, I got a PDF that was the device CLLI and port number of each device in the path A - Z. Obviously they could change it without informing me of the new path, but I at least know at order it's different and can ask for details when there are outages or latency changes that indicate a change in path.<br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span name="x" class=""></span><br class=""><br class="">-----<br class="">Mike Hammett<br class="">Intelligent Computing Solutions<br class=""><a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.ics-il.com</a><br class=""><br class="">Midwest-IX<br class=""><a href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.midwest-ix.com</a><span name="x" class=""></span><br class=""></div><br class=""><hr id="gmail-m_397592328166157353zwchr" class=""><div style="font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><b class="">From: </b>"Steve Naslund" <<a href="mailto:SNaslund@medline.com" target="_blank" class="">SNaslund@medline.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">To: </b><a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank" class="">nanog@nanog.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Sent: </b>Wednesday, January 2, 2019 11:33:43 AM<br class=""><b class="">Subject: </b>RE: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)<br class=""><br class="">
<div class="gmail-m_397592328166157353WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">All true but it is becoming increasingly difficult to determine if a provider is using another providers infrastructure (all are at some level). For example, in the SIP world there are several national level
carriers that are using Level 3s core SIP network and if you were not aware of that you could buy trunks from two of the largest SIP trunk providers in the US and actually be running on the same network. Carriers are also very often reliant on the ILEC for
fiber and last mile access. Especially in non-metro areas getting diverse last mile access could be impossible or have huge construction costs. It is pretty complicated to ensure that your carriers are really diverse and much harder to ensure that they stay
that way. I have many examples of carrier grooming their own primary and backup circuits onto the same L1 path and not realize they have done so.
</span></p><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Contractual diversity is a great idea that does not work since the carriers do not actually know what each other’s network looks like. So let’s say that Sprint and CenturyLink choose the same fiber carrier between
areas, do you think they would notify each other of that fact? Do you think the fiber carrier would tell them what another customer’s network looks like? You can tell Sprint to not use CenturyLink but there is no way to get both of them not to use the same
third party. I suppose you could contractually tell a carrier to avoid xxx cable but I would have little faith that they maintain that over time. I seriously doubt they review all existing contracts when re-grooming their networks.</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Steven Naslund</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Chicago IL</span></p><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">></span>I'm of the opinion that, if you need resiliency, you should order explicitly diverse circuits from a primary provider and then a secondary circuit from a second vendor.</p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">></span>Ultimately, If you want contractually-enforced physical diversity then the best options will be single-vendor solutions: Obviously you also want to avoid an unknown single-vendor single-point-of-failure,
hence the <span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">></span>secondary provider. Having two vendors is usually a less than optimal solution since neither has visibility into the others' network to ensure the physical diversity required for a truly resilient service: what
happens if <span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">></span>an undersea cable is cut, etc?</p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">></span>The cost of such solutions is often unpleasant to justify, mind.
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">></span>~a</p>
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