<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://micemn.net/services.html">http://micemn.net/services.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>MICE in Minneapolis is a great IX that we are on and their port fees are very reasonable. They used to be completely free up until this year. Even so, their fees are virtually nothing which encourages more operators to connect to it versus For-Profit IX's where sometimes the fees are almost as much as transit.</div><div><br></div><div>For example Midwest-IX is $9,300 per year for a 10G port but MICE is only $250 per year. That's a HUGE difference and MICE also has way more peers and traffic overall due to how easy and cheap it is to join.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:27 AM Mike Hammett <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net">nanog@ics-il.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Not all transit is cheap and not all transit is good quality, regardless of what it costs. ;-)<br><br>At our IX, we regularly see clients whose total network usage goes up once they're on the IX.<br><br><div><span name="x"></span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline">-----</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New 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Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp" style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png" style="border: 0pt none;"></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg" style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png" style="border: 0pt none;"></a><span name="x"></span><br></div><hr id="gmail-m_-42936882548855119zwchr"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><b>From: </b>"Mehmet Akcin" <<a href="mailto:mehmet@akcin.net" target="_blank">mehmet@akcin.net</a>><br><b>To: </b>"Clayton Zekelman" <<a href="mailto:clayton@mnsi.net" target="_blank">clayton@mnsi.net</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"Mike Hammett" <<a href="mailto:nanog@ics-il.net" target="_blank">nanog@ics-il.net</a>>, "NANOG Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a>>, "Tim Raphael" <<a href="mailto:raphael.timothy@gmail.com" target="_blank">raphael.timothy@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, December 21, 2018 8:19:43 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX<br><br><div><div dir="auto">Torix and Six are great examples.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If you want to be for profit, make sure to publish port pricing and keep it fair. Transit is cheap and good quality</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 08:14 Clayton Zekelman <<a href="mailto:clayton@mnsi.net" target="_blank">clayton@mnsi.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<br>
TorIX is a great example of a not for profit IX that is very
successful.<br><br>
<a href="https://www.torix.ca/" target="_blank">https://www.torix.ca/</a>
<br><br>
A very dedicated team of people provide an incredible level of
service.<br><br>
Thave a very transparent process. Their pricing is listed up front
on their website:<br><br>
<a href="https://www.torix.ca/peering/#pricing" target="_blank">
https://www.torix.ca/peering/#pricing</a><br><br>
<br><br>
At 09:03 AM 21/12/2018, Mike Hammett wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail-m_-42936882548855119m_5707732862739982715cite">As far as neutral, I meant
separate from the datacenters in which they're housed. People in NA seem
to think there are only two kinds of IXes, Equinix, DRT, Coresite types
and NWAX, SIX, MICE types.<br><br>
<br><br>
-----<br>
Mike Hammett<br>
<a href="http://www.ics-il.com/" target="_blank">Intelligent Computing
Solutions</a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.midwest-ix.com/" target="_blank">Midwest Internet
Exchange</a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/" target="_blank">The Brothers WISP</a><br><br>
<hr>
<b>From: </b>"Tim Raphael"
<<a href="mailto:raphael.timothy@gmail.com" target="_blank">raphael.timothy@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"NANOG Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org" target="_blank">nanog@nanog.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:39:42 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX<br><br>
The other point to consider is that a NFP can justify more locations and
offer services (such as extended reach) that don’t have the same profit
margins or ROI as for-profits.<br>
This often leads to greater value to those with smaller networks and
fewer customers allowing them to grow and expand without increased
aggregation or transit costs. This in-turn leads to a richer array of
providers and chips away at the monopolies in niche markets.<br><br>
The NFP IXP I work for focuses on providing value to the broader
community and the Internet as a whole - especially somewhere like
Australia which has unique constraints.<br><br>
Additionally, “Neutral†and For-Profit doesn’t always compute in my
mind, there will always be commercial alliances that lead to not-total
neutrality.<br>
When a NFP is owned by it’s members there has to be 100% transparency
in organisational decisions around member funds and resources which
ensures accountability reliability.</blockquote></div><div><blockquote class="gmail-m_-42936882548855119m_5707732862739982715cite"><br><br>
- Tim<br><br>
<br>
> On 21 Dec 2018, at 3:58 am, Brielle Bruns <<a href="mailto:bruns@2mbit.com" target="_blank">bruns@2mbit.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote:<br>
>> Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're
a for profit enterprise then they're paying for interconnection plus your
bump. If you're non-profit the perception is that there is a larger
value because there's no bump. Whether that's true or not, who
knows but that's the perception I've heard.<br>
> <br>
> Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to
how the hospitals are here in Boise.<br>
> <br>
> The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, price gouging,
etc. Their care can be pretty meh, esp since they bought up all the
little independent clinics (yay, ER pricing for a basic family clinic
visit).<br>
> <br>
> The for-profit smaller clinics and hospitals run a pretty tight
ship, better value for their money, service is very good, and compete
with one another for who has the best service.<br>
> <br>
> People think they are getting 'better' because they are going to a
place that is supposed to be run to benefit people over profit, but alas,
you'd be very very wrong.<br>
> -- <br>
> Brielle Bruns<br>
> The Summit Open Source Development Group<br>
>
<a href="http://www.sosdg.org/" target="_blank">http://www.sosdg.org</a>
/
<a href="http://www.ahbl.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ahbl.org</a>
<br>
> <br><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<u></u><p><u></u>
-- <br><br>
Clayton Zekelman<br>
Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi)<br>
<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=3363+Tecumseh+Rd.+E+%0D%0AWindsor,+Ontario+%0D%0AN8W+1H4&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank">3363 Tecumseh Rd. E</a><br><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=3363+Tecumseh+Rd.+E+%0D%0AWindsor,+Ontario+%0D%0AN8W+1H4&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank">
Windsor, Ontario</a><br><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=3363+Tecumseh+Rd.+E+%0D%0AWindsor,+Ontario+%0D%0AN8W+1H4&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank">
N8W 1H4</a><br><br>
tel. 519-985-8410<br>
fax.
519-985-8409<u></u> <u></u>
</p></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-42936882548855119gmail_signature">Mehmet<br>+1-424-298-1903</div>
</div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Darin Steffl<div>Minnesota WiFi</div><div><a href="http://www.mnwifi.com/" target="_blank">www.mnwifi.com</a></div><div>507-634-WiFi</div><div><a href="http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.snoitulosten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/facebook-small.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi" target="_blank">Like us on Facebook</a></div></div></div>