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<TITLE>RE: redefining which infrastructure is the proble [was: Re: On-going ..]</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Hi John,<BR>
<BR>
No where in that email did I say Spamhaus was an American organization.<BR>
<BR>
So let's not be petty.<BR>
<BR>
As for Spamahaus' professionalism, I would be point that some organizations that use opt-in list still get hit by Spamhaus either because the end users complained after apparently<BR>
1. forgetting that they had opted into the list<BR>
2. or they changed their mind.<BR>
<BR>
Many of the biggest publishing houses now run their email operations overseas precisely because they are tired of dealing with Spamhaus complaints<BR>
<BR>
The question is how is to achieve accountability.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think volunteer organizations are ideal from an accountability point of view.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Roderick S. Beck<BR>
Hibernia Atlantic<BR>
30 Dongan Place, NY, NY 10040<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.hiberniaatlantic.com">http://www.hiberniaatlantic.com</A><BR>
Landline: 1-212-942-3345<BR>
Wireless: 1-212-444-8829.<BR>
rod.beck@hiberniaatlantic.com<BR>
rodbeck@erols.com<BR>
``Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.'' Albert Einstein.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: John Levine [<A HREF="mailto:johnl@iecc.com">mailto:johnl@iecc.com</A>]<BR>
Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 3:03 PM<BR>
To: nanog@nanog.org<BR>
Cc: Rod Beck<BR>
Subject: Re: redefining which infrastructure is the proble [was: Re: On-going ..]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I rarely post, but that is clearly a problem. The Americans seem to<BR>
>believe in the presumption of guilt and the infallibility of<BR>
>accusation. As an American born and bred I can hardly be accused of<BR>
>bias.<BR>
<BR>
>Clearly spam is a serious problem in terms of draining network<BR>
>resources, but organizations like Spamhaus don't even do an<BR>
>investigation.<BR>
<BR>
Even if this were on-topic, don't you think it would a good idea to<BR>
make at least a cursory attempt to get your facts straight? Spamhaus<BR>
is located in the UK, I personally know multiple Spamhaus volunteers<BR>
who spend vast amounts of time resarching their blacklist entries,<BR>
and they put large dossiers on their web site to document them.<BR>
<BR>
ObOperations: Spamhaus publishes a drop list of IP ranges intended for<BR>
your router that I heartily recommend. It is much smaller than their<BR>
mail blacklist, chosen to include only network ranges with no<BR>
socically redeeming value at all.<BR>
<BR>
R's,<BR>
John<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi Joe,<BR>
<BR>
I know some organizations that use opt-in list and yet got complaints either because the end users complained after apparently<BR>
1. forgetting that they opted into the list<BR>
2. or they changed their mind.<BR>
<BR>
Many of the biggest publishing houses now run their email operations overseas precisely because they are tired dealing with Spamhaus. </FONT></P>
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