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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Joe makes a good point. Everyone is
shouting “no one owns IP addresses”, but that is proof by
assertion. Yelling louder doesn’t make it so. Neither does ARIN’s assertions
or their policies. What would establish IP addresses as some sort of ARIN-owned
and licensed community property? Well, winning a court case like this, or congress
passing a law. Frankly, those who want ARIN’s ownership of IP addresses
to be established, should hope Kremens put on a good case here, to establish a
nice solid precedent. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Who cares about when CIDR came out? It was
background information and not really material to the case. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kremens was the victim of a very nasty
fraud. People are acting like he’s a bad guy, when, in fact, he was a
victim of one of the worst cases of domain hijacking, and his original case is
one that we rely on for protection today. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There is a strong argument to be made for
ownership of IP addressing and subsequently trading address space as a
commodity, with ARIN as a commodity exchange and clearinghouse. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is this reaction people hating lawyers
more than ARIN, or what?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Daniel Golding<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>joe mcguckin<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, September 08, 2006
1:37 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> nanog@merit.edu<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fwd: Kremen VS Arin
Antitrust Lawsuit - Anyone have feedback?]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I read the complaint. I don't like the fact that a lot of my friends
are named in the suit, but I think there are some<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>points worth discussing within the community:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>1) IP address blocks are not 'property'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>"Domains are not
property. The assignee of a domain has no ownership interest"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Network Solutions
made this same argument years ago. That was their shield against lawsuits when
negligence<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>(or worse) on NetSols
part would cause a domain to be erroneously transferred. When mistakes were
made,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Network Solutions was
notoriously unwilling to reverse the transaction to correct the error.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Then they got sued
for refusing to reverse a fradulent domain transfer, and they lost. The case
had the side effect of setting <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>the precedent that
domains *are* in fact tangible property. Now when a registrar or registry makes
a mistake, they can be <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>legally held
responsible. (What case was that? Kremen v. Network Solutions)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>I would say that's an
improvement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>2) Why does ARIN
believe that it can ignore a court order?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>3) What's wrong with
treating assignments like property and setting up a market to buy and sell
them? There's plenty of precedent for this:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Mineral rights,
mining claims, Oil and gas leases, radio spectrum. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>If a given commodity
is truly scarce, nothing works as good as the free market in encouraging
consumers to conserve and make the best <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>use of it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Joe McGuckin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>ViaNet Communications<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><a
href="mailto:joe@via.net">joe@via.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>650-207-0372 cell<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>650-213-1302 office<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>650-969-2124 fax<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><br>
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