Increasing problems with geolocation/IPv4 access

Tom Beecher beecher at
Mon Feb 6 14:19:56 UTC 2023

> One would also think that large OTT content providers which publish
> Android and IOS apps could....

You said the magic word ; could.

It's the natural extension of MBA Math ; If you can pay for something 'as a
service' , it's going to be cheaper than paying people to develop it in
house. That 'service' is usually a reasonably high percentage of 'good
enough' so as not to really impact your revenue. For larger 'chunks' of
problems that could be a notable revenue hit , you'll allocate some
resources to work that out, but the smattering of instances here or there,
sorry Charlie.

On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 7:10 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke at> wrote:

> One would also think that large OTT content providers which publish
> Android and IOS apps could use the geolocation-permission data gathered
> from the device, telemetry reported to their own internal systems to gather
> their own independent data sets on where customers are geographically
> located, at least as coarse to a specific metro area.. And use that to
> clean up geolocation features where 3rd party IP geolocation datasets don't
> match reality.
> At the smallest scale of customer count: For instance if they have many
> dozens or hundreds of subscribers whose devices often sign in from the same
> /24 block, *and* in which that block is not known to be cellular
> carrier/MNO/MVNO IP space, *and* the devices' geolocation API data
> reports they're in a certain suburb of Portland. Or even if you have
> something like a smart TV in a house which has no geolocation ability/API
> exposed but many of the customers' *other* devices which *do* report
> geolocation API often sign in to the same account from the same
> residential-last-mile-provider dhcp pool /32 address.
> The amount of telemetry data collected off an android or ios devices these
> days by most consumer apps is quite comprehensive, and as we all known the
> average person is extremely likely to click "Yes/accept" on any
> software/interface modal popups, so the majority of the devices will not
> have geolocation blocked.  They already have whole teams of highly paid
> software developers working on the DRM-specific code in their video
> streaming apps, so clearly some use of that data is made already.
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:41 PM John van Oppen <john at> wrote:
>> Honestly, the only way I’ve found to fix this is completely fill it with
>> subscribers off a BNG and give support a script about what to tell
>> customers.
>> I’ve had folks literally get the wrong TV channels because we assign
>> unused blocks in Portland Oregon out of our parent large aggrigates and the
>> geo folks have our whois address in the seattle area so give them seattle
>> channels.    God forbid these OTT folks just design the product right and
>> use the verified billing zip code on the account or something else that
>> actually is authoritative.
>> *From:* NANOG < at> *On Behalf Of *Josh
>> Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 23, 2023 1:09 PM
>> *To:* Jared Mauch <jared at>
>> *Cc:* nanog <nanog at>
>> *Subject:* Re: Increasing problems with geolocation/IPv4 access
>> Every block I've gotten I just went through TheBrothersWisp geo location
>> page and just had them fix their information.  This includes virgin and
>> re-issued blocks from ARIN.
>> I've had a couple of random issues like Hulu thinking I'm a VPN, PSN
>> blocking a /24 because a /32 failed his password too many times, and
>> various streaming issues of which I tell customers to complain to the
>> streaming provider because all of the other ones work.
>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:32 PM Jared Mauch <jared at>
>> wrote:
>> I’ve been seeing an increasing problem with IP space not having the
>> ability to be used due to the behaviors of either geolocation or worse,
>> people blocking IP space after it’s been in-use for a period of time.
>> Before I go back to someone at ARIN and say “your shiny unused 4.10 IP
>> space” is non-functional and am at a place where I need to
>> start/restart/respawn the timer, I have a few questions for people:
>> 1) Do you see in any feeds from a security provider that
>> say it can/should be blocked?  If so, I’d love to hear from you to track
>> this down.  Over the new year we had some local schools start to block this
>> IP space.
>> 2) many companies have geolocation feeds and services that exist and pull
>> in data.  The reputable people are easy to find, there are those that are
>> problematic from time-to-time (I had a few customers leave Sling due to the
>> issues with that service).
>> 3) Have you had similar issues?  How are you chasing all the issues?
>> We’ve seen things from everything works except uploading check images to
>> banks, to other financial service companies block the space our customers
>> are in.  If we move them to another range this solves the problem.
>> 4) We do IPv6, these places aren’t IPv6 modern at all, so that’s no help.
>> 5) IRR+geofeed are published of course.  I’m thinking that it might be
>> worthwhile that IP space have published placeholders when it’s well
>> understood, eg: ARIN 4.9 space, I can predict what our next allocation
>> would be, it would be great to have it be pre-warmed.
>> I’ve only seen a few complaints against all our IP space over time, so I
>> don’t think there’s anything malicious coming from the IP space to justify
>> it, but it’s also possible they didn’t make it through.
>> If you’re with the FKA Savvis side, can you also ping me, I’d like to see
>> if you can reach out to our most recent complaint source to see if we can
>> find who is publishing this.  Same if you’re with Merit or the Michigan
>> Statewide Educational Network - your teachers stopped being able to post to
>> powerschool for their students over the new year break.  They’ve fed it up
>> to their tech people towards the ISD.  Details available off-list.
>> Any insights are welcome, and as I said, I’d like to understand where the
>> source list is as it starts out working then gradually breaks, so someone
>> is publishing things and they are going out further.
>> - Jared
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