Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not supported

Fri Mar 25 16:24:48 UTC 2022

Dear Owen:

0)    You rapid fired a few posts in succession yesterday. Some are 
interesting and crucial views that I would like to follow-up on. I will 
start from quoting the earlier ones. I hope that I am picking up the 
correct leads.

1)    " ... 240/4 is way more effort than its proponents want to believe 
and even if it were reclassified effectively as GUA, it doesn’t buy all 
that much life for IPv4. ...   ":     Perhaps you have not bothered to 
scan through a two page whitepaper (URL below, again) that I submitted a 
week or so ago? It promises simple implementation and significant 
increase of assignable IPv4 addresses, even extendable to the similar 
size of IPv6 if we could forgo our mentality about the IP addresses as 
"Personal Properties", by switching to treat them as "Natural Resources".

https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet.pdf

2)    " ...  so that content providers can start turning off v4 where 
it’s costing them money to support it. ....   " & "... Content providers 
turning off v4 face competition from content providers that don’t. ...  
":    These two statements appeared to come from two separate posting of 
yours. They seemed to be contradicting each other. Did I misread somehow?

Now from the last post below:

3)    "  ... 240/4 is way more effort than its proponents want to 
believe and even if it were reclassified effectively as GUA, it doesn’t 
buy all that much life for IPv4....   ": Please see information provided 
by Pt. 1) above.

4)    " ... I think it should be reclassified from never going to be 
used into some part of the internet might actually do something with it. 
Its important that happens now, better late then never ... Please feel 
free to use it for router IDs in BGP and/or OSPF area numbers. :p ...    
":    I am in full agreement with you. Our proposal is the solution in 
Pt. 1) above.

5)    "  ...  if we continue to waste effort that is better spent 
deploying IPv6 on bandaids and hacks to make v4 last just a little 
longer, .... ":    This is not a productive opinion. Please do not 
forget that the Internet heavily promotes personal freedom. One can not 
force others to do something that they do not believe in. Stopping them 
from doing one thing does not automatically make them to do what you 
like. A project must have its own merits that attract contribution. The 
failure of the IPv6 actually started from when a decision was made to 
the effect of "not to emphasize backward compatibility with IPv4" which 
broke one of the golden rules in system engineering. Not recognizing 
such and focusing to find a way for remedying it, but continuing to 
force others to migrate to IPv6 camp with various tactics does not 
foster progress.

6)    "  ... The problem is that we’re not talking about parallel 
experiments. ... ": EzIP is a parallel experiment to the current 
Internet (not only IPv4, but also IPv6) operations, because its overlay 
architecture on the latter demarcates everything happening on it from 
the Internet. As long as packets exchanged between the two conform to 
the established Internet protocols, an EzIP deployment (called RAN - 
Regional Area Network) will appear as innocent as an ordinary private 
network.

Regards,

Abe (2022-03-25 12:24)

On 2022-03-24 21:25, Owen DeLong via NANOG wrote:
>> On Mar 24, 2022, at 15:49, Joe Maimon<jmaimon at jmaimon.com>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Owen DeLong wrote:
>>>> On Mar 24, 2022, at 03:36 , Joe Maimon<jmaimon at jmaimon.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my view that takes the form of a multi-pronged strategy.
>>>>
>>>> Do what it takes to keep IPv4 as usable as possible for as long as possible.
>>> I think this isn’t so much preempting the vacuum as trying to pretend we can survive on an hour of air for 20 years.
>>>
>>> 240/4 is way more effort than its proponents want to believe and even if it were reclassified effectively as GUA, it doesn’t buy all that much life for IPv4.
>> I think it should be reclassified from never going to be used into some part of the internet might actually do something with it. Its important that happens now, better late then never. Whether its GUA or not or a mix of whatever, whether it buys months or years will depend greatly on how its actually used if it is ever used.
> Please feel free to use it for router IDs in BGP and/or OSPF area numbers. :p
>
>> You may be right about not being worth it. More importantly, you may be wrong. IPv6 is replete with not only a plethora of wrong predictions, but the same ones over and over again. To be clear, the only effort asked from the unwilling is to support cutting the red tape frustrating the willing. A hearty round of knock yourself out from the right folk in the right place and time and we dont have to debate this particular point ever again.
> Certainly, if we continue to waste effort that is better spent deploying IPv6 on bandaids and hacks to make v4 last just a little longer, we will continue to fail and further delay IPv6 reaching a level of deployment that allows us to start turning down IPv4 and beginning to recognize the cost savings that come from moving forward.
>
>> How are we to ever find out who is right if that never happens? That alone is enough reason for me.
> The problem is that we’re not talking about parallel experiments. We’re talking about an optional activity which will inherently pull resources away from a necessary activity, thus delaying the necessary activity and becoming somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Hence I oppose this wasteful experiment in favor of doing what we all know eventually needs to be done.
>
>>>> Personally, that means that although I have long disliked proposals that keep moving to the left of the 128bit space, were I to believe it likely to increase deployment and momentum I would champion it in my own limited fashion much as I do 240/4.
>>> Not sure what you mean by “moving to the left of the 128 bit space”.
>> That Ipv6 address allocation schemes and proposals tended to enlarge over time, using up more bits heading from right to left.
> Meh… I haven’t seen too much of that. I’ve been guilty of a certain amount of it, to be sure, but we’re only recently seeing the two largest RIRs start working through their second /12s even though it’s been years since I pushed for (and achieved) nibble-boundary round-ups as the norm in the ARIN region.
>
> I think that we’re still OK on allocation policies. What I’d like to see is an end to the IPv4-think in large ISPs, such as Comcast’s continued micro allocations to their customers.
>
> Owen
>

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/attachments/20220325/229cf369/attachment.html>