IoT - The end of the internet

Mel Beckman mel at beckman.org
Wed Aug 10 22:51:26 UTC 2022


Christopher,

What you’re really observing here is that today's technology does not yet enable these your chosen use cases. It may someday, but not today, not for any amount of money. 1990s modem technology didn’t enable streaming video either, but add 20 years of advancement, and today you can watch Seinfeld on your wrist.

Mankind has been to the moon, but you can’t have lunch on the moon next week, no matter how much money you have. But I have no doubt that eventually humans will be eating lunch on the moon whenever they like.

The Internet has never been “re-thought” throughout it’s entire history. Networking has advanced tremendously with stepwise refinement just fine. A “re-think” would simply be too expensive and too disruptive.

 -mel

On Aug 10, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Christopher Wolff <chris at vergeinternet.com<mailto:chris at vergeinternet.com>> wrote:

Hi NANOG;

I appreciate all the thoughtful replies and I apologize for vague posting when I should be sleeping.

Let me paint a little more context and hopefully this will help inform the conversation.

Use Case 1:  Augmented Reality/Virtual Reality.  It is stated that round trip latency must be <4ms with 100mbit full duplex at the cell edge to prevent nausea and dizziness while wearing goggles for a long term.

Use Case 2:  A little closer to “IoT”. An autonomous vehicle under remote control requires 100 feet to stop with LTE vs 20 feet with 5G.

Use Case 3:  A Lidar near-miss sensor at an intersection requires 1ms from the traffic operations center.

I hypothesize that there is a ‘breaking point’ between safety, health, and latency and traditional IP.

Will tomorrow’s applications require a re-thinking of “The Internet” and protocols that are low latency compliant?  Will we be building an infinite number of mobile edge compute boxes?

If there’s an academic study describing this potential issue it would help kickstart some interesting research.

Best,
Christopher

On Aug 10, 2022, at 1:26 PM, Alexander Lyamin <la at qrator.net<mailto:la at qrator.net>> wrote:

It's not devices. It's software and what's worse protocol specifications that are implemented in this software.

And we still didn't get the memo in 2022. Some colleagues think that having builtin 5x Amplification in protocols freshly out just this year "is OK".

....  Cyberhippies....

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 05:12 Ca By <cb.list6 at gmail.com<mailto:cb.list6 at gmail.com>> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 7:23 PM Christopher Wolff <chris at vergeinternet.com<mailto:chris at vergeinternet.com>> wrote:
Hi folks,

Has anyone proposed that the adoption of billions of IoT devices will ultimately ‘break’ the Internet?

It’s not a rhetorical question I promise, just looking for a journal or other scholarly article that implies that the Internet is doomed.

In so much as IoT devices are ipv4 udp amplifiers

https://www.ndss-symposium.org/ndss2014/programme/amplification-hell-revisiting-network-protocols-ddos-abuse/







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