Network visibility

Owen DeLong owen at
Thu Oct 21 16:53:26 UTC 2021

> On Oct 21, 2021, at 08:55 , Mel Beckman <mel at> wrote:
>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:19 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at <mailto:owen at>> wrote:
>> No, but you are ignoring the point of my message…
>> The TCP/IP internet existed _BEFORE_ the flag day you mentioned. The flag day was the end of NCP, not the beginning of TCP/IP. IIRC, at the time,
> Owen,
> But we’re not talking about the birth of TCP/IP. We’re talking about the birth of the capital-I Internet, which by definition runs exclusively on TCP/IP, and that didn’t start until Jan 1, 1983. Although there was experimentation using IP during 1982, that was still ARPANET. It was the guaranteed exclusive availability of IP that made 1983 the Internet’s birth date. 

IMHO, that’s an absurd definition. It was still ARPANET after January 1, 1983 too. Prior to 1982, it was ARPANET on NCP. During 1982, it was ARPANET running on NCP+TCP/IP, much like the Internet runs dual stack today on IPv4 and IPv6.

In 1983, NCP was removed from most of the backbone, as I hope will happen with IPv4 in the next few years.

> And no, it’s not analogous to the eventual IPv6 transition, because both IPv5 and IPv4 are Capital-I Internet standard protocols.

You’re picking arbitrary definitions of Capital-I Internet standards. NCP was every bit as standardized as TCP/IP in 1982.

Both were documented in the same IEN series of documents.

IEN later (well after TCP/IP) evoked to become RFC.

Don’t believe me? Look at the hosts.txt file from IPv4 days which still referenced IEN116.


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