Viable Third Option?

Eric Dugas edugas at
Thu Feb 18 02:52:50 UTC 2021

I'm referring to AS6461. They're offering IP transit from AS6461 here since
2017 (the takeover of AS15290's facilities in Montreal/rest of Canada).


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 8:32 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke at> wrote:

> In the context of Montreal, to clarify, when you say Zayo are you
> referring to Zayo Canada (former AT&T Canada/MTS-Allstream), or AS6461, the
> original Abovenet AS which is Zayo USA's IP transit network?
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 11:17 AM Eric Dugas via NANOG <nanog at>
> wrote:
>> The details you mentioned about Cogent and HE are still right.
>> I'm managing an eyeball network and have Cogent in our blend but I also
>> have three other Tier1s and VERY extensive peering (public and private). We
>> have (from the cheapest to most expensive) Cogent, Telia, Zayo and Tata. I
>> have to mention that we're based in Montreal so less choices compared to
>> your market. The only two other Tier1s available in Montrea is GTT and
>> Lumen/CL/Level3.
>> Cogent: difficult relations, good service overall
>> Telia: excellent relations, good service overall
>> Tata: good relations, good service overall
>> Zayo: difficult relations, good service overall
>> Eric
>> On Feb 17 2021, at 1:49 pm, Mike Hammett <nanog at> wrote:
>> This is from the perspective of an eyeball network. I understand that
>> content networks would have different objectives and reasons. For instance,
>> I have little to no reason as an eyeball network to exchange traffic with
>> any other eyeball network (aside from P2P games). For a content network,
>> getting into the eyeball networks is their objective.
>> My crystal ball tells me this thread will spiral out of control because
>> people won't be able to keep it on topic, but it is a question that I hear
>> VERY often. I also expect a lot of purely bad or outdated information to
>> get thrown out.
>> Please try to keep it on topic and not being pedantic over relatively
>> unimportant details.
>> There are two major low-cost providers, Cogent and HE.
>> Cogent
>>    - Refuses to peer IPv6 with HE
>>    - Refuses to peer IPv6 with Google
>>    - Aggressive sales tactics
>> Hurricane
>>    - Doesn't have Cogent IPv6 because of Cogent's refusal
>>    - Lack of communities for anything other than blackholes
>> I know there are a variety of other providers such as Fusion Network that
>> operate at similar price points, but are available in way fewer locations.
>> What else is out there? Anyone else that isn't 5x, 10x the cost?
>> Cogent and HE get looked down upon (and sometimes deservedly so), but
>> when I talk to someone trying to sell me a port in 350 Cermak for 8x the
>> cost of Cogent and HE, you better have a very good argument for why you're
>> worth it...  and they never do. "We're not Cogent." "and?" Many times I'm
>> quoted transit that costs more than Cogent + IX + HE and they don't really
>> have a good argument for it.
>> As an eyeball, I join an IX and there goes 50% - 85% of my traffic and
>> almost all of my traffic that anyone is going to notice or complain about
>> if there are issues (video streaming).
>> I do understand that enterprise eyeballs may have different requirements.
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <>
>> The Brothers WISP <>
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