Viable Third Option?

Eric Kuhnke eric.kuhnke at
Thu Feb 18 01:32:08 UTC 2021

In the context of Montreal, to clarify, when you say Zayo are you referring
to Zayo Canada (former AT&T Canada/MTS-Allstream), or AS6461, the original
Abovenet AS which is Zayo USA's IP transit network?

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 11:17 AM Eric Dugas via NANOG <nanog at>

> The details you mentioned about Cogent and HE are still right.
> I'm managing an eyeball network and have Cogent in our blend but I also
> have three other Tier1s and VERY extensive peering (public and private). We
> have (from the cheapest to most expensive) Cogent, Telia, Zayo and Tata. I
> have to mention that we're based in Montreal so less choices compared to
> your market. The only two other Tier1s available in Montrea is GTT and
> Lumen/CL/Level3.
> Cogent: difficult relations, good service overall
> Telia: excellent relations, good service overall
> Tata: good relations, good service overall
> Zayo: difficult relations, good service overall
> Eric
> On Feb 17 2021, at 1:49 pm, Mike Hammett <nanog at> wrote:
> This is from the perspective of an eyeball network. I understand that
> content networks would have different objectives and reasons. For instance,
> I have little to no reason as an eyeball network to exchange traffic with
> any other eyeball network (aside from P2P games). For a content network,
> getting into the eyeball networks is their objective.
> My crystal ball tells me this thread will spiral out of control because
> people won't be able to keep it on topic, but it is a question that I hear
> VERY often. I also expect a lot of purely bad or outdated information to
> get thrown out.
> Please try to keep it on topic and not being pedantic over relatively
> unimportant details.
> There are two major low-cost providers, Cogent and HE.
> Cogent
>    - Refuses to peer IPv6 with HE
>    - Refuses to peer IPv6 with Google
>    - Aggressive sales tactics
> Hurricane
>    - Doesn't have Cogent IPv6 because of Cogent's refusal
>    - Lack of communities for anything other than blackholes
> I know there are a variety of other providers such as Fusion Network that
> operate at similar price points, but are available in way fewer locations.
> What else is out there? Anyone else that isn't 5x, 10x the cost?
> Cogent and HE get looked down upon (and sometimes deservedly so), but when
> I talk to someone trying to sell me a port in 350 Cermak for 8x the cost of
> Cogent and HE, you better have a very good argument for why you're worth
> it...  and they never do. "We're not Cogent." "and?" Many times I'm quoted
> transit that costs more than Cogent + IX + HE and they don't really have a
> good argument for it.
> As an eyeball, I join an IX and there goes 50% - 85% of my traffic and
> almost all of my traffic that anyone is going to notice or complain about
> if there are issues (video streaming).
> I do understand that enterprise eyeballs may have different requirements.
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <>
> The Brothers WISP <>
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