Gaming Consoles and IPv4

Mon Sep 28 12:45:24 UTC 2020

Yes

No.

On 9/28/20 8:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Are non-ISP-provided routers all that common anymore?
> 
> Aren't there enough IPv6-enabled operators with critical mass of IPv6 
> deployments that IPv4-only networks can be treated like the second-tier 
> citizens they are?
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
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> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists at rivervalleyinternet.net>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog at ics-il.net>, "Daniel Sterling" 
> <sterling.daniel at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog at nanog.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:42:16 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
> 
> Many... but not all... and just because the operator is doesn't mean the
> person you want to play with is.  And just because the operator is
> doesn't mean the router you or the other person is using supports it.
> 
> On 9/28/20 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>  > Aren't most of the major operators using IPv6?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > -----
>  > Mike Hammett
>  > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  > 
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>  > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  > 
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>  > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  > 
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > *From: *"Daniel Sterling" <sterling.daniel at gmail.com>
>  > *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog at ics-il.net>
>  > *Cc: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists at rivervalleyinternet.net>, "North American
>  > Network Operators' Group" <nanog at nanog.org>
>  > *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 8:33:56 PM
>  > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
>  >
>  > Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question,
>  >
>  > At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games
>  > I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work rather well
>  > and should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically turning on upnp
>  > makes this *worse*, because when their algorithm probes to see what
>  > ports to use, upnp sends all traffic from the "magical xbox port" to one
>  > box instead of letting NAT control the ports. This does cause problems
>  > when multiple xboxes are behind one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and
>  > both xboxes are fully powered off and then turned on one at a time,
>  > things do work. But when upnp is off everything works w/o having to 
> do that.
>  >
>  > There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do horrible
>  > things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems for any recent
>  > device / gaming system.
>  >
>  > It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's
>  > cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and
>  > it wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support
>  > dual-stack. just a guess there
>  >
>  > -- Dan
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net
>  > <mailto:nanog at ics-il.net>> wrote:
>  >
>  >     Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work behind one
>  >     public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept up in that realm.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >     -----
>  >     Mike Hammett
>  >     Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  >     
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>  >     Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  >     
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>  >     The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  >     
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>  >     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >     *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists at rivervalleyinternet.net
>  >     <mailto:mattlists at rivervalleyinternet.net>>
>  >     *To: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.steffl at mnwifi.com
>  >     <mailto:darin.steffl at mnwifi.com>>
>  >     *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog at nanog.org
>  >     <mailto:nanog at nanog.org>>
>  >     *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM
>  >     *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
>  >
>  >     I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not
>  >     work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an
>  >     apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc.
>  >
>  >         On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl
>  >         <darin.steffl at mnwifi.com <mailto:darin.steffl at mnwifi.com>> wrote:
>  >
>  >         
>  >         This isn't rocket science.
>  >
>  >         Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on upnp,
>  >         then they will have open NAT to play their game and host.
>  >
>  >         On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes
>  >         <mattlists at rivervalleyinternet.net
>  >         <mailto:mattlists at rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
>  >
>  >             I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if
>  >             anyone here knows why gaming consoles are so stupid when it
>  >             comes to IPv4?
>  >
>  >             We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through
>  >             multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have gaming
>  >             consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their way through a PAT
>  >             system with STUN or other methods?
>  >
>  >             It seems like this should be a simple solution, why are we
>  >             still opening ports or having systems that don’t work?
>  >
>  >
>  >
> 