Hurricane Electric AS6939

Wed Oct 14 21:31:05 UTC 2020

Yes it did, because they were running *all* of those over their Infinera
DWDM platforms which crashed. If the underlying optical line terminals are
FUBAR, all bets are off.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:27 PM Luke Guillory <lguillory at reservetele.com>
wrote:

> Didn’t the Dec 2018 CL outage cause waves and even TDM circuits to go down?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Luke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+lguillory=reservetele.com at nanog.org> *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Erculiani
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:59 PM
> *To:* Darin Steffl <darin.steffl at mnwifi.com>
> *Cc:* nanog list <nanog at nanog.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
>
>
>
> **External Email: Use Caution**
>
> For providers who use the same infrastructure for their IP backbone and
> Ethernet services (as so many do), a large DDoS could disrupt all Ethernet
> services that normally traverse affected links, whereas Waves would be
> blissfully ignorant of such an event. Waves are pretty reliable and will
> only go down as a result of a configuration error, vendor software issue,
> or physical/layer 1 failure, all of which can also affect Ethernet services.
>
>
>
> This is especially important if you select a provider that sees excess
> capacity as a wasted operational expense instead of an investment in
> reliability.
>
>
>
> Worth noting that protected Waves do have a "reconvergence" time like
> Ethernet would, but this is typically measured in nanoseconds for shorter
> distances. Your equipment can probably be configured to not link-down
> during this gap, you'll just see some errors or a few dropped packets
> (subject to your provider's specific implementation).
>
>
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:41 PM Darin Steffl <darin.steffl at mnwifi.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes but they're $$$ to have protection. Generally ethernet will be cheaper
> than waves with the added protection.
>
>
>
> I'm not arguing for one or the other. Waves will often be cheaper when
> looking at 10G or 100G compared to ethernet. For 1G or less, ethernet might
> be cheaper with some protection already built-in.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:31 PM Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> *nods* There are protected wave services generally available if you wish
> to protect about such things.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.steffl at mnwifi.com>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog at ics-il.net>
> *Cc: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuhnke at gmail.com>, "nanog list" <nanog at nanog.org
> >
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:08:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
>
> The downside to waves are that they're typically not protected. So a cut
> will take you down. If you have 10G Layer 2 ethernet, they often will have
> redundant paths so the only single path that can fail is between you and
> their first POP where they hopefully have redundancy. It can make a big
> difference when you're transporting data hundreds or thousands of miles.
> The longer the path, the less reliable the wave will be as each route mile
> opens you up to more risk.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:25 PM Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> I suppose it depends on your carrier and their capabilities.
>
> I much prefer waves to any kind of service that you can aggregate. Being
> able to aggregate just means they're going to oversubscribe you and at some
> point, you'll not get what you're paying for. Can't do that on a wave.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuhnke at gmail.com>
> *To: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" <lists at packetflux.com>
> *Cc: *"nanog list" <nanog at nanog.org>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:25:46 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
>
> For small ISPs looking at setting up their first ever presence at an IX
> point, you almost certainly would not be ordering an actual 'wave' (eg: a
> specific DWDM channel on a legacy 10G DWDM platform, handed off to you with
> 1310/LX interfaces at both ends), but lit layer 2 transport service between
> the carrier hotel and your service location.
>
>
>
> Pricing for the two types of service can be quite different when you
> request an actual 'wave' from a carrier sales person, vs just lit L2
> transport capable of large MTUs, QinQ, etc.
>
>
>
> The ISP carrying it might take it between those two places as simply a
> vlan trunked through a larger 100G link, as a MPLS circuit, lots of
> possible things.
>
>
>
> Unless you happened to be in a happy conjunction of the right place at the
> right time, and an older DWDM system on exactly the same path you wanted
> happened to have an empty channel and ready to go interface cards at both
> ends.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> lists at packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> Generally one would order a circuit (aka wave) between your location and
> the IX fabric at the interchange if you're not at the site you're wanting
> to peer at.
>
>
>
> For instance, the network I am the network engineer for has a circuit
> which terminates into the Seattle IX (SIX) fabric.   We don't have any
> other presence in Seattle (or Washington for that matter) at this point -
> our circuit connects directly to our port on the Exchange.   We're
> considering adding a similar link to another exchange point somewhere to
> the east or southeast of us.   I haven't looked at the graphs recently, but
> it's not uncommon for >50% of our traffic to come from the exchange.   And
> yes, we're peered with Hurricane and others there.
>
>
>
> We're also looking at dropping 1U or so of equipment in so we can pick up
> some transit as well, but that's a story for a different day about the joys
> of providing internet in the less populated parts of the country.
>
>
>
> In your case, it also looks like there are also some peering options at
> the datacenters you are currently at as well.   You may want to do some
> more research to determine how that might work in your situation.
>  PeeringDB is a good resource along with google searches for "peering 100
> Taylor" or "peering austin data foundry"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 9:51 PM <aaron1 at gvtc.com> wrote:
>
> Don’t you have to be there to join?
>
>
>
> I’m in Austin and San Antonio
>
>
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2020 7:20 PM
> *To:* Aaron Gould <aaron1 at gvtc.com>
> *Cc:* nanog at nanog.org
> *Subject:* Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
>
>
>
> https://bgp.he.net/AS16527
>
>
>
> You don't appear to be on any IXes. Definitely join some IXes before
> buying another 100G of transit.
>
>
>
> DFW has a couple and there are some more that are starting up.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>
> *Midwest Internet Exchange*
>
> *The Brothers WISP*
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Aaron Gould" <*aaron1 at gvtc.com <aaron1 at gvtc.com>*>
> *To: **nanog at nanog.org <nanog at nanog.org>*
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 13, 2020 6:29:55 PM
> *Subject: *Hurricane Electric AS6939
>
> Do y’all like HE for Internet uplink?  I’m thinking about using them for
> 100gig in Texas.  It would be for my eyeballs ISP.  We currently have
> Spectrum, Telia and Cogent.
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> - Forrest
>
>   <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>   <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> -- <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> Darin Steffl <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> Minnesota WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> *www.mnwifi.com* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> 507-634-WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> *Like us on Facebook* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>   <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>   <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> -- <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> Darin Steffl <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> Minnesota WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> *www.mnwifi.com* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> 507-634-WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> *Like us on Facebook* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>   <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> -- <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> Matt Erculiani <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
> ERCUL-ARIN <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/attachments/20201014/79905512/attachment.html>