Hurricane Electric AS6939

Wed Oct 14 21:29:11 UTC 2020

The inverse of that is that an actual wavelength for 10/100G services can
be contractually defined to a certain specific path at OSI layer 1 (with
GIS vector shape files from the underlying carrier provided prior to
signing a contract). Whereas a layer 2 transport service could also turn
out to be unprotected, if it's a particularly low cost service.

Or it could be protected. And you might not have the ability to define its
path between city A and city B to intentionally avoid being non-diverse
from another route.

The L2 lit service carrier could re-route it around the region however they
want during the term of your service, if the contract isn't written to
avoid that.

In my experience actual wavelengths such as a carrier might use to
transport an STM64 between two places on far sides of a state, even
non-protected, will be considerably more expensive than buying lit L2
service. For small ISPs where their entire presence at an IX will fit in
one or two 10Gbps circuits, and a 100Gbps circuit from $smalltown to
$bigcity_ix_point would be cost prohibitive, it's often the best option.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:08 PM Darin Steffl <darin.steffl at mnwifi.com>
wrote:

> The downside to waves are that they're typically not protected. So a cut
> will take you down. If you have 10G Layer 2 ethernet, they often will have
> redundant paths so the only single path that can fail is between you and
> their first POP where they hopefully have redundancy. It can make a big
> difference when you're transporting data hundreds or thousands of miles.
> The longer the path, the less reliable the wave will be as each route mile
> opens you up to more risk.
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:25 PM Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> I suppose it depends on your carrier and their capabilities.
>>
>> I much prefer waves to any kind of service that you can aggregate. Being
>> able to aggregate just means they're going to oversubscribe you and at some
>> point, you'll not get what you're paying for. Can't do that on a wave.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuhnke at gmail.com>
>> *To: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" <lists at packetflux.com>
>> *Cc: *"nanog list" <nanog at nanog.org>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:25:46 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
>>
>> For small ISPs looking at setting up their first ever presence at an IX
>> point, you almost certainly would not be ordering an actual 'wave' (eg: a
>> specific DWDM channel on a legacy 10G DWDM platform, handed off to you with
>> 1310/LX interfaces at both ends), but lit layer 2 transport service between
>> the carrier hotel and your service location.
>>
>> Pricing for the two types of service can be quite different when you
>> request an actual 'wave' from a carrier sales person, vs just lit L2
>> transport capable of large MTUs, QinQ, etc.
>>
>> The ISP carrying it might take it between those two places as simply a
>> vlan trunked through a larger 100G link, as a MPLS circuit, lots of
>> possible things.
>>
>> Unless you happened to be in a happy conjunction of the right place at
>> the right time, and an older DWDM system on exactly the same path you
>> wanted happened to have an empty channel and ready to go interface cards at
>> both ends.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> lists at packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Generally one would order a circuit (aka wave) between your location and
>>> the IX fabric at the interchange if you're not at the site you're wanting
>>> to peer at.
>>>
>>> For instance, the network I am the network engineer for has a circuit
>>> which terminates into the Seattle IX (SIX) fabric.   We don't have any
>>> other presence in Seattle (or Washington for that matter) at this point -
>>> our circuit connects directly to our port on the Exchange.   We're
>>> considering adding a similar link to another exchange point somewhere to
>>> the east or southeast of us.   I haven't looked at the graphs recently, but
>>> it's not uncommon for >50% of our traffic to come from the exchange.   And
>>> yes, we're peered with Hurricane and others there.
>>>
>>> We're also looking at dropping 1U or so of equipment in so we can pick
>>> up some transit as well, but that's a story for a different day about the
>>> joys of providing internet in the less populated parts of the country.
>>>
>>> In your case, it also looks like there are also some peering options at
>>> the datacenters you are currently at as well.   You may want to do some
>>> more research to determine how that might work in your situation.
>>>  PeeringDB is a good resource along with google searches for "peering 100
>>> Taylor" or "peering austin data foundry"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 9:51 PM <aaron1 at gvtc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don’t you have to be there to join?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m in Austin and San Antonio
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Aaron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net>
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2020 7:20 PM
>>>> *To:* Aaron Gould <aaron1 at gvtc.com>
>>>> *Cc:* nanog at nanog.org
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://bgp.he.net/AS16527
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't appear to be on any IXes. Definitely join some IXes before
>>>> buying another 100G of transit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DFW has a couple and there are some more that are starting up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From: *"Aaron Gould" <aaron1 at gvtc.com>
>>>> *To: *nanog at nanog.org
>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 13, 2020 6:29:55 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Hurricane Electric AS6939
>>>>
>>>> Do y’all like HE for Internet uplink?  I’m thinking about using them
>>>> for 100gig in Texas.  It would be for my eyeballs ISP.  We currently have
>>>> Spectrum, Telia and Cogent.
>>>>
>>>> -Aaron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Forrest
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>
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