COVID-19 vs. our Networks

Fri Mar 20 14:59:34 UTC 2020

I think people can tell the difference just fine.

But get lawyers involved on what the word 'emergency' means, then watch the
fun.

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:47 AM Mel Beckman <mel at beckman.org> wrote:

>
> If you say "$Service should reduce their bit rates because this is an
> emergency!" , I guarantee that exact same argument will be made well after
> this crisis has passed with a different definition of "emergency", and
> adding on "well it's an emergency to me!"
>
>
> Well, that’s a silly argument. Do you think people can’t tell the
> difference between a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic and somebody who’s having
> a “personal emergency”?
>
>  -mel
>
> On Mar 20, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Tom Beecher <beecher at beecher.cc> wrote:
>
> 
> It is something that matters, because it has the potential to set a
> dangerous precedent.
>
> If you say "$Service should reduce their bit rates because this is an
> emergency!" , I guarantee that exact same argument will be made well after
> this crisis has passed with a different definition of "emergency", and
> adding on "well it's an emergency to me!".
>
> Some of the pipes Netflix goes through is also used by other services that
>> aren't as adaptable.
>>
>
> And how is that Netflix's responsibility? They have already taken action
> to ramp down bitrates when they detect congestion. Why should other
> applications be able to say piss off, I don't want to? Didn't we just have
> a 10 year net neutrality argument that we're not supposed to want to treat
> the bits differently?
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:17 AM Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> It's one of those most important things that matters.
>>
>> The end user likely won't notice the difference between 4k and 720p. They
>> also aren't likely to notice the transition from one to the other.
>>
>> The person on the VPN, VoIP call, video conference, video game, etc. will
>> very much notice the congested link, even if it's only a few seconds.
>>
>>
>> Yes, Netflix video is very efficient, if not the most efficient. They're
>> also one of if not the largest slingers of bits on the Internet. Small
>> changes in usage of such a huge player totally eclipse most other usages on
>> the Internet.
>>
>> https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306
>>
>> Netflix recommends 25 megs for Ultra HD, while only 5 megs for HD. That's
>> a 5x difference in something people likely won't notice and would make a
>> big difference on the additional VPN, VoIP, video conferencing, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Blake Hudson" <blake at ispn.net>
>> *To: *nanog at nanog.org
>> *Sent: *Friday, March 20, 2020 9:01:18 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks
>>
>> Yes, but does that matter? If there's extra capacity on the link, Netflix
>> runs at full rate. If there is not extra capacity Netflix rates down to
>> prevent congestion. While streaming video (including Netflix) uses a lot of
>> bandwidth, I don't see Netflix causing congestion. It gets a bad wrap, and
>> I think that's unfair because Netflix is actually really efficient and
>> really conscientious compared to others.
>>
>> On 3/20/2020 8:52 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Some of the pipes Netflix goes through is also used by other services
>> that aren't as adaptable.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Blake Hudson" <blake at ispn.net> <blake at ispn.net>
>> *To: *nanog at nanog.org
>> *Sent: *Friday, March 20, 2020 8:32:45 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 12:22 PM, Mark Tinka wrote:
>> >
>> > On 19/Mar/20 18:07, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Agreed... 720 or 1080 Netflix will work just as fine as 4K for the
>> >> next month or two.
>> > Well, the article claims "Drop stream quality from HD". That means 4K,
>> > 1080p and 720p.
>> >
>> > If you have an OCA on your network, how does this encourage consumers to
>> > use the "extra bandwidth" for anything else?
>> >
>> > Are we assuming we know how consumers want to spend their time now?
>> >
>> > Mark.
>>
>> Across several eyeball networks I'm not seeing any noticeable increase
>> in peak (95%) demand between now and January. Since Netflix
>> automatically scales down data rates in the event of congestion, the
>> only thing I foresee forcing Netflix to reduce data rates [ahead of any
>> congestion] would accomplish is causing excess link capacity to go
>> unused (wasted). This sounds like a policy decision made without a
>> technical argument... e.g. not a data driven decision, but a decision
>> made out of fear or panic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/attachments/20200320/32d41332/attachment.html>